Off Topic The Politics Thread

[kiwiqpr]

Do as I say
Not as I do

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[Uber_Hoop]

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[Stroller]

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[Staines R's]

Labour seem to be doing their upmost to destroy themselves from within.
Infighting, the most bizarre policies, disunity and odious individuals like Watson and Thornberry make them pretty much unelectable in the eyes of many. Condemns us to another 5 years of Tory government.......when Corbyn became leader many like me really believed this could be a new era....and now many like me feel sadly let down.

 

[bobmid]

Labour seem to be doing their upmost to destroy themselves from within.
Infighting, the most bizarre policies, disunity and odious individuals like Watson and Thornberry make them pretty much unelectable in the eyes of many. Condemns us to another 5 years of Tory government.......when Corbyn became leader many like me really believed this could be a new era....and now many like me feel sadly let down.

Exactly the way i see it aswell

 

[QPR Oslo]

Labour seem to be doing their upmost to destroy themselves from within.
Infighting, the most bizarre policies, disunity and odious individuals like Watson and Thornberry make them pretty much unelectable in the eyes of many. Condemns us to another 5 years of Tory government.......when Corbyn became leader many like me really believed this could be a new era....and now many like me feel sadly let down.

Corbyn has let down the majority of Labour supporters, about 90% I've read, by not doing his best to stop Brexit. They should have kicked him out and replaced him long ago with someone that would, like Starmer. Still it's not too late, doing it right now might just give Labour a chance of winning a GE, but if Corbyn remains Leader and continues his endless prevarication as seems likely, much of the anti-Brexit vote will go to the LibDem, Green and Nationalists, and Labour will probably get less % of the vote than the LibDems, with the Tories the largest party, and an opposition who will struggle to organise a coalition to defeat them.

 

[colognehornet]

Corbyn has let down the majority of Labour supporters, about 90% I've read, by not doing his best to stop Brexit. They should have kicked him out and replaced him long ago with someone that would, like Starmer. Still it's not too late, doing it right now might just give Labour a chance of winning a GE, but if Corbyn remains Leader and continues his endless prevarication as seems likely, much of the anti-Brexit vote will go to the LibDem, Green and Nationalists, and Labour will probably get less % of the vote than the LibDems, with the Tories the largest party, and an opposition who will struggle to organise a coalition to defeat them.

The only problem here is the mathematics. Under the British voting system it is only necessary to keep 35-38% of the electorate on your side and rely on the opposition being split. If you end up with one Brexit party and the remain vote being spread over several parties then it can only lead to one result. Labour has to be able to draw support from both camps. They do not need to declare, at this stage, which side they would support in a possible referendum which may be only hypothetical - we have not reached that stage yet.

 

[QPR Oslo]

Corbyn has let down the majority of Labour supporters, about 90% I've read, by not doing his best to stop Brexit. They should have kicked him out and replaced him long ago with someone that would, like Starmer. Still it's not too late, doing it right now might just give Labour a chance of winning a GE, but if Corbyn remains Leader and continues his endless prevarication as seems likely, much of the anti-Brexit vote will go to the LibDem, Green and Nationalists, and Labour will probably get less % of the vote than the LibDems, with the Tories the largest party, and an opposition who will struggle to organise a coalition to defeat them.

Unison vote to support Remain position, so maybe this Labour conference will. Corbyn says he will follow what Conference decides, but the trouble is there will be many Labour voters who will no longer trust him to do just that, and will vote for LibDem or someone else.

 

[Staines R's]

Exactly the way i see it aswell

It’s so sad mate. I returned to Labour, joined the party and really thought

Corbyn has let down the majority of Labour supporters, about 90% I've read, by not doing his best to stop Brexit. They should have kicked him out and replaced him long ago with someone that would, like Starmer. Still it's not too late, doing it right now might just give Labour a chance of winning a GE, but if Corbyn remains Leader and continues his endless prevarication as seems likely, much of the anti-Brexit vote will go to the LibDem, Green and Nationalists, and Labour will probably get less % of the vote than the LibDems, with the Tories the largest party, and an opposition who will struggle to organise a coalition to defeat them.

I totally disagree. Corbyn is fundamentally anti the EU and he is at least trying to stick to his principles (only just) by not toeing the ‘middle class’ line of loving the EU, which is in fact pro business and pro the rich.
We can discuss this and go round in circles again and again but the facts will tell......my opinion (which of course is worth very little) is they come out as total remain then they lose a vast amount of working class votes.....hopefully to a more left wing party/coalition.....only time will tell

 

[Staines R's]

Unison vote to support Remain position, so maybe this Labour conference will. Corbyn says he will follow what Conference decides, but the trouble is there will be many Labour voters who will no longer trust him to do just that, and will vote for LibDem or someone else.

I’m a member of Unison and I don’t support remain. The people at the top don’t speak for all the people at the bottom.

 

[Staines R's]

The only problem here is the mathematics. Under the British voting system it is only necessary to keep 35-38% of the electorate on your side and rely on the opposition being split. If you end up with one Brexit party and the remain vote being spread over several parties then it can only lead to one result. Labour has to be able to draw support from both camps. They do not need to declare, at this stage, which side they would support in a possible referendum which may be only hypothetical - we have not reached that stage yet.

But that’s the problem.......By not making a firm decision they risk alienating ALL parties, both remain and leave. They’ve got themselves into a very deep hole.

 

[QPR Oslo]

The only problem here is the mathematics. Under the British voting system it is only necessary to keep 35-38% of the electorate on your side and rely on the opposition being split. If you end up with one Brexit party and the remain vote being spread over several parties then it can only lead to one result. Labour has to be able to draw support from both camps. They do not need to declare, at this stage, which side they would support in a possible referendum which may be only hypothetical - we have not reached that stage yet.

But Polling in EU elections , local elections and opinion polls suggest Corbyns prevarication is losing Labour voters to both sides, in England to LibDem and the Brexit party. He needs to be clear and go with what the majority of Labour support/voters want which is Remain.

 

[Staines R's]

But Polling in EU elections , local elections and opinion polls suggest Corbyns prevarication is losing Labour voters to both sides, in England to LibDem and the Brexit party. He needs to be clear and go with what the majority of Labour support/voters want which is Remain.

I think you’ll be in for a bit of a shock when it comes to polling time. Especially when/if Labour lose vast swathes of votes in the North.....only time will tell.

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

Corbyn has let down the majority of Labour supporters, about 90% I've read, by not doing his best to stop Brexit. They should have kicked him out and replaced him long ago with someone that would, like Starmer. Still it's not too late, doing it right now might just give Labour a chance of winning a GE, but if Corbyn remains Leader and continues his endless prevarication as seems likely, much of the anti-Brexit vote will go to the LibDem, Green and Nationalists, and Labour will probably get less % of the vote than the LibDems, with the Tories the largest party, and an opposition who will struggle to organise a coalition to defeat them.

I think you’ll find old chap that 70% of Labour Party supporters actually voted leave, so although your right in your claim that Corbyn has lost support he hasn’t lost it because he didn’t back Remain , he lost it because he didn’t deliver on his manifesto promise of honouring the referendum result and leaving, remember Corbyn has no respect for democracy, in a challenge against his leadership he lost by a massive margin but refused to step down, he has only one interest and that’s geting the keys to number 10, and I’m afraid he will trample over everything and everybody including his own party members and democracy trying to achieve it.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, Comrade Jezzbollah Corbynski is a bigger danger to the U.K. than a direct hit from an errant asteroid.

 

[colognehornet]

I think you’ll find old chap that 70% of Labour Party supporters actually voted leave, so although your right in your claim that Corbyn has lost support he hasn’t lost it because he didn’t back Remain , he lost it because he didn’t deliver on his manifesto promise of honouring the referendum result and leaving, remember Corbyn has no respect for democracy, in a challenge against his leadership he lost by a massive margin but refused to step down, he has only one interest and that’s geting the keys to number 10, and I’m afraid he will trample over everything and everybody including his own party members and democracy trying to achieve it.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, Comrade Jezzbollah Corbynski is a bigger danger to the U.K. than a direct hit from an errant asteroid.

Sorry but you're plucking statistics out of a hat to suit your own argument here - according to You Gov. 65% of Labour voters voted to remain, along with 30% of Tories. If you have any evidence to the contrary then please produce it.

 

[Staines R's]

Sorry but you're plucking statistics out of a hat to suit your own argument here - according to You Gov. 65% of Labour voters voted to remain, along with 30% of Tories. If you have any evidence to the contrary then please produce it.

So you think Labour would be correct to back remain and possibly alienate 35% of its support (according to the poll you quote) ?. Would be political suicide that I’m sure the party leadership are trying to avoid.
As I said before......they are in a very deep hole and I can’t see a way out for them.

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

Sorry but you're plucking statistics out of a hat to suit your own argument here - according to You Gov. 65% of Labour voters voted to remain, along with 30% of Tories. If you have any evidence to the contrary then please produce it.

Apologies just checked again in fact You.gov says 60% of labour CONSTITUENCIES voted leave, my error reading in a rush BUT, 60% of of labour constituencies make up an awful lot of voters by any means, and even by your figures of 30% is enough to cause labour to lose by a wide margin.

 

[colognehornet]

So you think Labour would be correct to back remain and possibly alienate 35% of its support (according to the poll you quote) ?. Would be political suicide that I’m sure the party leadership are trying to avoid.
As I said before......they are in a very deep hole and I can’t see a way out for them.

It sounds very strange to say this but Corbyn is actually occupying the centre ground on this - through not following the polarized partizan nature of tribal politics in the UK at the moment. The majority do not want a Bojo led hard Brexit - but, at the same time, the staunchest remainer must realize that the only way Britain can stay in the EU. is via a second referendum - so the Liberal route of simply cancelling Brexit without a referendum is simply not tenable. Corbyn is actually going along the path of reconciliation - which the British have to do at some stage.

 

[Staines R's]

It sounds very strange to say this but Corbyn is actually occupying the centre ground on this - through not following the polarized partizan nature of tribal politics in the UK at the moment. The majority do not want a Bojo led hard Brexit - but, at the same time, the staunchest remainer must realize that the only way Britain can stay in the EU. is via a second referendum - so the Liberal route of simply cancelling Brexit without a referendum is simply not tenable. Corbyn is actually going along the path of reconciliation - which the British have to do at some stage.

Corbyn is trying to please both sides by not making a decision but in doing that he is actually pleasing none and alienating everyone.
He should stand up for his principles (as proven by his many years of voting against the EU), not be bullied by the middle class Left, and stand firmly in the Leave camp. Only then will Labour have a chance of winning any GE.

 

[bobmid]

I think you’ll find old chap that 70% of Labour Party supporters actually voted leave, so although your right in your claim that Corbyn has lost support he hasn’t lost it because he didn’t back Remain , he lost it because he didn’t deliver on his manifesto promise of honouring the referendum result and leaving, remember Corbyn has no respect for democracy, in a challenge against his leadership he lost by a massive margin but refused to step down, he has only one interest and that’s geting the keys to number 10, and I’m afraid he will trample over everything and everybody including his own party members and democracy trying to achieve it.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, Comrade Jezzbollah Corbynski is a bigger danger to the U.K. than a direct hit from an errant asteroid.

I cant agree with any of that to be fair.
Corbyn didnt deliver on his manifesto promise? How the **** does he do that when the Tories are in power??? This is and always will be a Tory **** up! The Hulk or Corbyn?? What a ****ing choice