We've also spent significantly less on transfers than Spurs and the clubs around us. I'm not saying we've excelled, far from it. But I would argue that we have been successful. We've qualified for the champions league every season, and been right in the mix for all the major trophies. We've come up short yes, but to assert that Wenger is a failed manager due to this - is just wrong.
I don't agree that Wenger has failed as a manager, but he hasn't succeeded recently, either. He's done roughly what you'd expect, given the finances of Arsenal and the clubs around you. You've spent less on transfer fees, but far, far more on wages, which is much more important. That's one of the reasons why clubs can't progress past a certain point, as their best players move to the clubs that can afford to pay them the most money. You can't build a side if you don't pay the top rate, as key parts of your side will keep leaving. Arsenal have had the luxury of being able to hold onto their best players until recently. Now that this luxury has been taken away, you appear to be struggling, relatively speaking.
I think City and Chelsea were always going to change the landscape of football, the point you make about wages is a valid one, they will always be able to usurp any other offer. Utd, for slightly different reasons are also able to offer huge salaries too. I think our problem with wages has not been that individually they are high, but that we've offered long term contracts to young players on above average wages. But we've still lived within our means When FFP rules take effect, it should begin to level out the playing field.......
I don't think that you believe that any more than I do, Piskie. I'd love to think that the FFP rules will work, but I think that they'll probably end up doing nothing to the likes of Chelsea, Citeh, PSG and Mallaga. Some smaller club trying to compete will probably get it in the neck, instead. Wigan, probably.
Maybe I am being too optimistic about FPP, perhaps I should say that it's my hope that it will level the playing field. I think the FFP panel need to be robust about the Etihad deal that they've promised to investigate. If it doesn't represent a fair market deal, then they need to impose sanctions against City. Wenger recently commented about it, citing the fact that Arsenal's £100m deal over 15 years with Emirates, compared with City's £400m deal over 10 years with Etihad meant that "we must have done a bad deal" *tounge firmly in cheek*
The Etihad deal is the most lucrative stadium deal in history and City clearly aren't the biggest club in the world, so it should be a no brainer. I'm sure that City's lawyers will disagree, though. The Emirates deal is a bit ****, in all honesty. It's a combined deal, which incorporates an 8 year shirt sponsorship. We actually get more money from just our primary shirt deal. I guess it represented a decent long-term investment when it started.
Well said Piskie, Wenger has been the second most successful manager in Prem history, and is one of the most successful in the world given his successes at Monaco and in Japan too. Anyone calling him a failure or 'failed manager' is simply wrong. His record ranks with Billy Nick's and Herbert Chapman and anyone who calls them 'failed managers' are simply deluded.
Sorry. But,as I put earlier, Wenger WAS very successful. However, in more recent time he has become a victim of his own intransigence, and pig-headedness. I repeat, it has been plainly obvious to any non- partisan observer, that the Arsenal teams of the last few years have been lacking balance. Wenger has failed to address this - hence his lack of trophies - hence the loss of some of his key players.
Key words there, GH. "HAS BEEN" that sums it up, for me. He's not winning anything at the moment. In my view, the reasons for that are there for all to see, yet Wenger chooses to ignore the obvious, and plough on regardless.
The original assertion was that Wenger is a 'Failed manager'. The term 'failed' is used in proper context to assess a situation after it has concluded. A failed test, A failed MOT, A failed election campaign etc. It would be like accusing a student of having failed, before they've completed their course.
Also, despite another failed point in the original assertion - that Wenger knows nothing about European financial affairs, he is in fact a Masters graduate in Economics
Yes it does. How else can you tell if it has failed until after the votes have been taken and the campaign concluded?
If you want to play analogy tennis, in the last six years of his career Brando had one bad (and I mean bad) performance in Doctor Moreau. The rest of his performances, meanwhile, lived up to what was expected of him - in other words, pretty much impossible to compare to Arsenal at any point in the last six years because Brando delivered...
He hasn't, but he's got Arsenal in the CL each and every of the last three seasons and plenty more before that. And according to lots of Spurs fans, herer and elsewhere, it's better to get top 4 than win the domestic cups or the EL. Not a view I share, but the majority of Spurs fans fans seem to rate getting top 4 as a big deal, Wenger has done it what fifteen times? To repeat the idea that Wenger is a failed manager is ludicrous, his record stands up alongside Billy Nick's and Herbert Chapman's.
Hi NSIS, Wenger has got Arsenal in the CL for the past 6 seasons, most Spurs fans think getting into the Cl is a great success, so by the majority of Spurs fans' opinions, Wenger has been successful, even without trophies. I would rather win the EL than get get top four, but most Spurs fans think that top 4 is the priority. To correct myself, Wenger is the second most successful manager in Prem history, and his record stands up alongside Chapman and Nicholson and they weren't failed managers.
Two points 1. Even if Brandon produced utter crap in the last 6 years of his career his epitaph would not read "failed actor" 2. Remember Spurs jizzed their pants when they qualified for CL last season, for the first time in their history. Wenger has qualified for the CL every single year for over a decade and a half! Including the so called barren years (last 6 seasons)
As Luke and I have both suggested, he has singularly failed to address glaring weaknesses in his recent Arsenal sides. By his own standards, he is failing. Whether he's becoming more dogmatic In his old age, or what. I don't know. But, his current strategy is not working; and, unless he realises that soon, this could easily be the season that he doesn't qualify for the CL.
It's a bit more complex than him becoming 'more dogmatic in his old age'. Financially, we haven't been able to compete with Utd, Chelsea and City - and a few players who Wenger would have signed to address our weaknesses ended up signing for the aforementioned clubs. Smalling and Jones being a couple of examples. You're right to point out though that by his own high standards, he has a lot to live up to and trophies have eluded him for the last six years. I wouldn't call it failing, as a top 4 finish, a good challenge in all competitions and qualification for the champions league is a measure of success my most people's standards. But at least you got the tense right 'failing' as opposed to 'failed'
