Interesting that The Mail has suddenly found some sympathy for the people of Liverpool over their fight for justice over the Hillsborough disaster.... '"Truth must be told", the paper said, noting the decision of MPs to respond to an e-petition and hold a debate on the tragedy. "The breakthrough is a tribute to the tenacity of those who have fought to establish how such a disaster could ever have happened" it said."The Mail fully supports their campaign for openness and justice. The family members of the 96 dead are growing older and, 22 years on, it would be unforgivable for them to go to their graves without knowing the full truth about that dark day"' However, The Mail has never been bothered about the Hillsborough Campaign, never been a champion for the aggrieved. Should one be so cynical as to connect this sudden compassion/sympathy/generosity with the fact that Kelvin MacKenzie, their new 'brilliant' columnist is the former Sun editor, publisher of the 'expose' which blamed Liverpool fans for the disaster and accused them of 'bestial behaviour'. The Mail's headline: The Truth Must Be Told. The Sun's smeary headline in 1989: The Truth. [With thanks to The Guardian/Hugh Muir]
Are you trying to say MacKenzie has influenced The Mail due to his conscious over past discrepancies whilst at The Sun ? Kelvin MacKenzie is a loathsome ****house of a man who hasn't got a conscious .
No, not at all. It's The Mail 'preparing the ground' for his arrival. There has been a swell of feeling from the Scousers (and rightly so!) at the imminent arrival of the ****house himself.
"A terrible thing, cynicism. Debilitating, corrosive. And so we noted with good faith the Mail's statement on Wednesday about the people of Liverpool and their fight for justice over the Hillsborough disaster. "Truth must be told," the paper said, noting the decision of MPs to respond to an e-petition and hold a debate on the tragedy. "The breakthrough is a tribute to the tenacity of those who have fought to establish how such a disaster could ever have happened," it said. "The Mail fully supports their campaign for openness and justice. The family members of the 96 dead are growing older and, 22 years on, it would be unforgivable for them to go to their graves without knowing the full truth about that dark day." Indeed it would. But the Mail has never been a champion of the Hillsborough campaign, so what's with the timing of this declaration? Some measure of generosity, to be sure. But also, we understand, some measure of trepidation about the imminent arrival of the Mail's "brilliant" new columnist, former Sun editor Kelvin MacKenzie. Evidently, the Mail has been inundated with phone calls threatening a Merseyside boycott of the type that so depressed sales of the Sun after MacKenzie published his "exposé" blaming Liverpool fans for the disaster and accusing them of bestial behaviour. The Mail's headline: The Truth Must Be Told. The Sun's smeary headline in 1989: The Truth. Think Unabomber meant they were ****ting themself cos of a threatened boycott.
I don't understand why people keep employing that man, it seems nobody on earth likes him or the bile he writes.
Gotcha . Bit slow on the uptake there. Like N has said why employ him in the first place ? He's an absolute cretin .
He is often on Sky News reviewing the following mornings paper despite Murdoch sacking him, he has a high regard for Murdoch, peas in a pod?
I once referred to The Sun as "The Scum" on the old Beeb 606 (doesn't that seem a long time ago?) and the mod wouldn't allow it! By comparison, I love the freedom on this board. Cheers, Malteser!
I've read all the reports and having been there on the day, I have my own personal thoughts on what lead to the events that have since become football history and much reported on. I'll qualify the next few paragraphs by saying, like everyone at any football match we all see a different game. Here's most of my Hillsborough memories, and my thoughts on what lead to those terrible events. We got to the ground around 14:20, we had to wait for a relative who had our tickets to arrive. Whilst waiting, leaning on a wall at the back of the leppings lane end we were approached by at least a dozen liverpool fans asking if we had any tickets to sell, one kid was pissed out of his head, he'd fallen down a dyke side and was covered in ****e. A copper on a horse saw us waiting and he asked what we were waiting for, after telling him, he firmly told us to get in the ffing ground as soon as our tickets turned up, if we didn't he would arrest us! We obediently did as requested. Whilst walking round to our turnstyle I saw dozens of Liverpool fans asking for tickets and looking for ways into the stadium. We were sat four rows from front of the North stand (with the Liverpool supporters) directly along the Forest goal line. After kick off it was all Forest, attack after attack, they looked like scoring. I could see the leppings lane end errupting, it looked like fighting and people were trying to climb over the fence. My thought at the time was that the Liverpool supporters were wanting to disrupt the game as Forest were looking like scoring every time they went forward. The first injury I saw was a lad with his wrist broken in two maybe three places being lead into our corner by a St John's ambulance lady. We were laughing at the state of him! Shortley after a bloke ran past us carrying an unconscious young lad (9 or 10 years old) whose face was blue and marbled. They were coming into our corner because thats were the solitory ambulance was located. Before this chap could get the young kid to the ambulance, the ambulance was on the pitch and headed towards the far end. The poor bugger had to turn round and chase it back across the pitch. Eventually he did and the ambulance turned round and set off out of the ground. The next was a bloke carrying a young lass, she was also unconscious, he was shouting for someone to help and I think hoping to find another ambulance. With no ambulances people started carrying the dead and injured towards the corner of the ground we were in, most stopped near the half way line, some started CPR and a few policemen tried helping. I saw one copper trying to give CPR and a pissed up Liverpool fan was shouting and swearing at him, he even grabbed him. It looked like he was trying to pull him off. I saw a lad from Goole who I recognised carrying someone on advertisement hoarding. At 15:42 We walked out, we couldn't bare to watch any longer, it was caos. Going back into the stand we were confronted with 15 dead bodies, they were just left there with Tee shirts and jumpers pulled out of thier jeans and over thier heads to vover thier faces. A couple had people with them. It was immensly distressing, it still is. Walking back to the car we passed policemen and women crying in the streets outside the ground. I've watched the TV footage hundreds of times, I've seen the grey haired, moustached copper who spoke to us, his black cape, his horse trapped in the crowd outside the ground, appearing to be crushed almost as if his horse was being lifted off the ground. I've seen myself in the crowd wearing a white jumper on a sunny spring day, observing the horror of it all. What caused the deaths??? was is a lack of ambulances, poor policing decisions, poor policemen and women, the fences, the terraces? No for me its more simple than that. Had those people who didn't have tickets not been there the pressure on the crowd outside the ground wouldn't have happened. The police wouldn't have had to open the gates into the ground to release the pressure, the terracing wouldn't have been over loaded, the crowd rush wouldn't have happened, the barriers and fencing wouldn't have created death traps to crush those poor people against. Sorry if this isn't your view, as I said at the beginning of this post, it's my personal thoughts on what I saw. No one wants to believe that they contributed to the deaths of someone else. But for me the sad facts are that some of them were partly to blame.
Good post Jobbo, horrific thing to go through. People want to see terracing back on this site. I am totally against it.
But, even so, there is no excuse for MacKenzie and The Scum claiming that Liverpool fans urinated on the corpses. As The Scum did.
Jobbo, I don't think anyone could seriously contemplate arguing with your opinion . You experienced a truly catastrophic event and have the right to air you're views . Common sense would state that what you say is right , I just think people are too scared to say it .
I am not defending them, but The Sun claimed the Liverpool fans urinated on the emergency services, not the corpses. Subtle, but very important difference. One of the biggest criticisms was also their claim that an officer was assaulted while trying to give CPR, not dissimilar to Jobbo's horrific account. It always seems that people need a scapegoat, but inevitably in situations like this there are a number of factors that on any other day would have resolved themselves, but when they all happen at once it goes wrong, there are no easy answers.
Thanks Fellas, it's just one of thousands of opinions of those who were there, each is equally valid.
SiK, I didn't include all that I saw for fear of sounding unbelievable. Do not dismiss the Sun's claim, I saw someone urinate on a PC whilst he was giving CPR. I saw a Liverpool fan taunting the Forest fans in the spine cop whilst bodies were laid all over the pitch literally. You hit the nail on the head mate, there are no easy answers.
