People should forget cups ... never gunna happen.. at best lose heavily in the latter stages and get relegated.... zero point
urrrrggghhhhhh.....are we seriously comparing Pardew to Rafa? One was the best manager we've had in years, a Champions League winner, who was adored by the fans and stood up to our backwards owner....the other was a slimey sleazebag, who headbutted players, pushed over refs, called other mangers ****s, and spent 4+ years embarassing himself by obviously being a slimey yes-man goon for Ashley. And let's not forget that he managed to gain Crystal Palace the glittering prize of worst record of any of the 92 football league leagues in the 2016 calendar year. And that he got a perfectly good West Brom team relegated with his **** management. And that he got sacked form West Ham for shagging several players wives (this last one isn't 100% confirmed, but those in the know have confirmed it's true). FFS do we really need to do this? Keegan, Robson and Rafa were great managers. Souness, Roeder, Pardew, McClaren, Allardyce, Bruce etc are journeyman duffers who will manage anywhere desperate enough to call them in. The fact Bruce had been slugging around in the championship for the past few years (like McClaren) and with no decent offers speaks volumes. Bruce may surprise us all by getting us somewhere like 10th, but it'd be highly unlikely, and won't alter the fact he clearly isn't a top class manager, unlike his predecessor.
Hang on I must have missed when Rafa won the CL here...completely irrelevant when assessing his time here in terms of results and performance. To be honest I couldn't really give a **** what our fans think of either, or if one was a slimey sleazebag. I didn't compare their character. I compared purely on results and style of football. Now the fans can dress it up any which way they like, Pardew's record compares well with Rafa in terms of results. They certainly had different ways of getting there. The highs under Pardew were far higher than anything Rafa achieved. We never made Europe under Rafa and certainly never approached the quality of football in that season finishing 5th. The lows were far lower with some really poor runs and heavy defeats. Rafa preferred a more consistent approach and bigger squad of average players. Pardew risked it more by having a higher quality 11 but not much underneath. Once we got injuries we found it far tougher under Pardew because the drop off was huge and he wasn't as tactically astute in terms of stopping teams as Rafa. By the way the last comment on Pardew is completely untrue. He was only ever accused of this at Southampton. And that is all it was, an accusation he shagged Jose Fonte's wife. The same Jose Fonte that waxed lyrical about Pardew after he left basically claiming he owed him everything. Hardly likely if he's dicked your wife. Did Rafa really stand up to the owner? He stuck around until he got offered mega money to go elsewhere. That's the truth of it. If China hadn't have been there, are you honestly kidding yourself Mr Principles would have left regardless? I'm not falling for this holy Rafa ****e, he's like any other, in it for himself. Pardew stuck around until he was offered the opportunity to go to his childhood team. Pardew was more complimentary about the owner and was very defensive of his players in the press. Rafa made veiled references about the owner, using the press and fans, while also regularly inferring his current players were crap. Many ways to skin a cat. So do we need to do it? Not really. We all know Rafa is a more talented manager than Pardew and more professional. However on his time here in terms of results and performances on very comparable budgets, I'm afraid Rafa failed to outperform him bar being better at getting the fans onside, and behaving more professionally. You can't compare Rafa to Robson/Keegan in terms of results. Completely different budgets in operation. It would be unfair on Rafa as Robson/KK wiped the floor with him because of this.
Rafa was a manger with history of success and a legacy on a par with Robson and Keegan, Pardew certainly was not. The only time things we're ever fun under Pardew was the 5th season, and we never came anywhere near that afterwards. Rafa is a manager who builds success, and you could see he clearly wanted to build with us, and wanted to take the club forward, and the progress under the 3 seasons highlights that Rafa blantantly did stand up to Ashley, and wasn't afraid to speak his mind in interviews. Mega money elsewhere? Any manager/player with a decent rep can do and earn mega bucks in China or the MLS, but most prefer an actual challenge in a proper league. I'm sure he would have left had the China role not been there, as he clearly would not have been short of other options. If you removed the 5th season, the Pardew years were pretty turgid, under Rafa however we had belief for once that we were going somewhere and the club was finally moving upward and continuous improvement was the order of the day and could be achieved. Not like it matters or owt anyway, cos we've got a manager that's worse than either of them now.
I can simplify it. Its not about who is a better manager in their career, its about how they performed results wise at Newcastle. Pardews PL performance: 2010/11 - Finished 12th (half a season) 2011/12 - Finished 5th 2012/13 - Finished 16th 2013/14 - Finished 10th 2014/15 - Finished 15th (half a season, we were 8th when he left, technically speaking we were 7th but only because Spurs played day after) So if we combine his two half seasons his average PL finish was 10.25 over 4 years. Rafa's PL performance: 2017/18 - Finished 10th 2018/19 - Finished 13th So if we combine his two half seasons his average PL finish was 11.5 over 2 years. As I say purely on results on the budgets they had, its not really in dispute that Pardew is up there with Rafa. Indeed he actually outperformed him. In terms of style of football, its difficult because we were up and down under Pardew. We actually played some great stuff the year we finished 10th so its not strictly true to suggest we never hit the highs of 5th again. We did in nearly every season bar the one we finished 16th - however we did hit those highs in Europe that season. Naturally we had a viable excuse for that performance too. Pardew took us deep in Europe and because of our owner we didn't have the resources for such a campaign. As nearly every team with our resources entering Europe finds out, its actually a bit of a poisoned chalice. At least he had a go though. Rafa and Pardew never tried in the cups. It was accepted for Rafa but not for Pardew funnily enough... Rafa never really tried to play nice football. He just had a defensive way of getting results. Nothing wrong with that of course. I don't think we played horrific football overall under Rafa like some suggest, but you have to be honest it was a hard watch at times. And I'm not just talking about the park the bus stuff at Man C, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. Indeed when you consider that Pards stuck out the best part of 5 seasons of underfunding, whereas Rafa only did two, it makes Pards performance look even better again. So away from fans misty eyes, the bluster, the myth of Rafa Benitez is easily exploded. If you think he did an excellent job in terms of results, then you must think the same of Pardew. I personally think both did really well considering the budgets they had. I'd prefer Rafa because his professionalism was better for the clubs image. The cold hard reality is the fans pre judged both Pardew and Rafa, and the resulting judgments stuck with them regardless of results.
I'm not gonna write an essay in response cos I haven't got time. At the end of the day there are lies, damn lies and statistics, and you can prove anything with stats. The fact is times change, and in the short time between Pardew leaving, and Rafa getting us back into the Prem, the league had changed a lot, with the likes of Leicester, Bournemouth, Wolves etc now paying the kind of £20/30m fees only heard of at the top. Thus this isn't necessarily a like for like comparison. However I felt we were building and constantly moving forward under Rafa in a way we never were under Pardew - ie star man Cabeye being sold and destablysing the team, and Ba being allowed back as central striker and changing the great strike force of 11-12. The Cisse/Ba/Ben Arfa 3 pronged attack was the most lethal attack we've had since the Shearer days, but it only lasted a few months, you could put this down to Cisse going off the boil, but a massive part of it for me was letting Ba back as central striker. I agree Rafa is likeable and Pardew eminently disliable, which skews opinions somewhat, but for me the thing that swings this is that Rafa clearly had a vision and long term plan in mind, whereas Pardew just came across as riding the tide as Ashley's yes man.
McClaren, Allardyce, Bruce etc are journeyman duffers who will manage anywhere desperate enough to call them in. You missed Rafa off that list, not won anything since 2014, been unemployed for two years twice, has been at three clubs for less than one season, serially sacked, and now gone to play expensive park football management in China. I am sick of this Rafa garbage. He has played you people badly. If he ever was great, then he has not been for a long time. He did OK here, but it was usually very hard to watch. Bruce would not be my choice, but he needs support and time before he is vilified by some of your Rafa lovers. His points per game at Newcastle is pretty much the same as Bruce in his whole premier league career at Wigan Et Al.
accrington stanley beat Marsielle the other day man, and we have to face them this season ! Accy not Mars by the way unfortunatly.
Doesn't need an essay mate, bottom line is Pardew at the very least matched Benitez in terms of results. No getting away from it.
Irrelevant. Once you finish the season your position is all that matters not your points. That would be like saying a manager who finished 18th and was relegated with 41 points, did a better job than a manager the following season who stayed up with 38 points. He obviously didn't. Points are only relevant to the season in question. If you want to know who had the better the results, it simply comes down to what was the result i.e. where did you finish. Its just a horrible dirty fact for the Rafa knob polishers. Pardew outperformed him
