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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #34861
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  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    the blue flag
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    altogether now
     
    #34862
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  3. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    'The Independents', are independent of other independents in the Commons, both of whom are independent of The Independent Group For Change, formerly Change UK: The Independent Group, formerly the Independent Group.

    Crack that, and it all makes sense.

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    #34863
  4. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    The latter.
     
    #34864
  5. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Top Labour figures 'interfered' in anti-Semitism disputes
    Image caption Seumas Milne and Jennie Formby have been accused of interfering in the disciplinary process
    Senior Labour figures have interfered in the disciplinary process of dealing with accusations of anti-Semitism, ex-party officials have told the BBC's Panorama.
    Seumas Milne, one of Jeremy Corbyn's closest aides, told officials the party was "muddling up political disputes with racism" and must review processes.
    And General Secretary Jennie Formby attempted to interfere in who sat on a panel examining a high-profile case.
    Labour said there was no interference.
    Instead, it said the former staff making the claims were "disaffected".
    'Instruction'
    Labour's disputes team is supposed to operate independently from the party's political structures, including the leader's office.
    But Sam Matthews, the party's former head of disputes, said he interpreted an email sent by Mr Milne - the Labour leader's communications chief - in March 2018, calling for a review into how complaints were handled, as "an instruction".
    Mr Matthews is one of eight former Labour officials - seven of whom worked in the party's Complaints and Disputes Department - who have spoken to Panorama about their experiences of dealing with anti-Semitism cases.
    They claim:
    • The leader's office was "angry and obstructive" when it came to the issue
    • Officials brought in by Ms Formby "overruled" disciplinary decisions and "downgraded" punishments to a "slap on the wrist"
    • Mr Milne laughed when advised by a long-serving party official about what Mr Corbyn should do to tackle anti-Semitism in the party
    • On one occasion, Jeremy Corbyn's office ordered batches of anti-Semitism complaints to be brought to his Commons office for processing by his aides
    Four chose to talk publicly despite having signed non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) with Labour not to discuss any aspects of their work for the party.
    Louise Withers Green, a former disputes officer, left the Labour Party after being signed off with depression and anxiety.
    She had signed an NDA so she did not have to work her notice period, but despite that spoke to the programme, saying she wouldn't "be able to live with myself unless I speak up about the horrendous things that I know have been happening".
    The party has been engulfed by a long-running dispute over anti-Semitism within its ranks, which has led nine MPs and three peers to leave the party.
    The leadership has been accused of failing to get to grips with the problem, with allegations of hundreds of complaints against members remaining unresolved.
    BBC Panorama spoke to more than 20 former officials as part of its investigation - Is Labour Anti-Semitic? - which will be broadcast at 21.00 BST on Wednesday.
    They allege that they had to deal with a huge increase in anti-Semitism complaints since Mr Corbyn became leader in 2015.
    Panorama discovered there was backlog of 1,000 anti-Semitism allegations this spring, with only 15 people having been expelled.
    Asked about that relatively small number, Andrew Gwynne, shadow communities secretary, said there were "lots of cases that are ongoing as well" and some people, when faced with an investigation, had chosen to leave of their own accord.
    "We are serious about getting shot of this problem," he insisted.
    A Labour spokesman told the BBC the 1,000 figure was "categorically untrue".
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    The testimony Panorama reveals tonight - and the leaked emails they have obtained - will paint a picture that contrasts with the leadership's claims that they are doing as much as they can.
    And they will cause deep alarm in many parts of the Labour movement.
    For their part, Mr Corbyn's allies totally reject the testimony that's been put forward - instead claiming those who have come forward are "disaffected".
    But this is a real challenge to Mr Corbyn's handing of anti-Semitism.
    Read more from Laura
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    'Bad publicity'
    Mike Creighton, Labour's former head of the disputes team, told BBC Panorama he was approached by Mr Milne for advice in spring 2016.
    He said he had suggested the party dealt with some of the top level anti-Semitic cases "much more swiftly and much more robustly", and that Mr Corbyn make a speech on the Middle East, "particularly saying that Israel had a right to exist".
    But Mr Creighton claimed Mr Milne's response was to laugh at him.
    "I thought he actually wanted to know how we tackle anti-Semitism within the Labour Party," he added. "I think what he actually meant to say was, how do we deal with the bad publicity we're getting?"
    When Panorama put this allegation to the Labour Party, they said: "The Labour Party dispute this conversation ever took place… this allegation is false and malicious.
    "Jeremy Corbyn has repeatedly expressed his support for Israel's right to exist and for a two state solution... so there is no reason whatsoever to laugh at any such suggestion."
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    Jewish Labour Party members told the BBC’s Panorama about their experiences of anti-Semitism in the party
    Officials said they received an email from Mr Milne in March 2018, in which he said "something's going wrong and we're muddling up political disputes with racism".
    "I think going forward we need to review where and how we're drawing the line."
    Mr Matthews, who left his role after two years in 2018, said he interpreted the email as "the leader's office requesting to be involved directly in the disciplinary process".
    He added: "This is not a helpful suggestion. It is an instruction."
    Officials also told the programme Mr Corbyn's office had on one occasion ordered batches of anti-Semitism complaints to be brought to them to assess.
    But Labour said this was a "staff resourcing matter", and it was not unusual for people to be seconded into the party's governance and legal unit - so separation was maintained.
    The party said in a statement: "The Leader's Office did not intervene. These former disaffected employees sought the view of staff in the Leader's Office, which was compiled with in good faith.
    "These disaffected former officials include those who have always opposed Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, worked to actively undermine it, and have both personal and political axes to grind."
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    Image copyright Getty Images
    Image caption Labour Party members have been protesting over its handling of anti-Semitism allegations
    When it came to Ms Formby, a leaked email chain appears to show an attempt to influence the selection of the disciplinary panel for the case of Jackie Walker - the former vice chair of the Left-wing Labour campaign group Momentum, who was expelled in March over allegations of anti-Semitism.
    An email written by Ms Formby on 5 May 2018, said: "The National Constitutional Committee cannot be allowed to continue in the way that they are at the moment and I will also be challenging the panel for the Jackie Walker case."
    Later in the chain, Ms Formby wrote that she had "deleted all trace of the email", adding: "Too many eyes still on my Labour address."
    The email chain was copied to Mr Milne, Karie Murphy - Mr Corbyn's chief of staff - and Mr Corbyn's personal email address.
    Ms Formby's predecessor as general secretary, Lord McNicol, said the emails should set "alarm bells ringing across the party".
    "The NCC was created in a specific way to remove itself from politics and from political interference. So to try to interfere politically within the NCC is just wrong."
    The Labour Party told Panorama that Ms Formby temporarily stopped using her party email because of concerns a political opponent had access to it.
    They said that "the emails… are simply about ensuring the NCC is held accountable for the length of time they take to hear cases, and about protecting the party against any successful legal challenge on the basis of perceived bias if the same panel is used in high profile cases".
    A spokesman added: "Labour is taking decisive action against anti-Semitism, doubling the number of staff dedicated to dealing with complaints and cases. And since Jennie Formby became general secretary, the rate at which anti-Semitism cases have been dealt with has increased four-fold."
    Kat Buckingham, who was the former chief investigator on the disputes team, told Panorama she had a breakdown and decided to leave the party as a result.
    "I was stuck between…an angry and obstructive Leader's Office and an arcane disciplinary system," she said. "I couldn't hold the tide and I felt so powerless and I felt guilty and I felt like I failed."
    Former Labour cabinet minister Lord Falconer told BBC Radio 4's PM the allegations were "hair-raising" and showed the party was "still in denial" over the issue.
    Ex-foreign secretary Jack Straw said the fact people with "vile views" had been allowed to remain in the party showed the extent of Mr Corbyn's "complacency".
    He said he deplored what he called "the clique" around Mr Corbyn attempting to "rubbish" those who had given years of loyal service to the party.
    Seumas Milne is Jeremy Corbyn's communications chief and at the heart of his inner circle.
    He is in charge of how the party gets its message across, and its relationship with the media.
    But his history lies in newspapers, having worked on the Guardian for over 30 years before taking up the role in Mr Corbyn's office.
    He is considered to be on the far Left of the party and worked for a magazine produced by the Communist Party of Great Britain (although he was never a member).
    He also wrote a book called The Enemy Within: The Secret War Against the Miners about the strikes in the mid-1980s.
    Jennie Formby is the general secretary of Labour - the most senior employee in the party.
    She is responsible for around 200 staff and has a number of tasks to perform, including running the party's internal committees, organising the party conference and preparing campaigns.
    Her role is separate from the Leader's Office and focuses on the membership.
    Before taking the post in 2018, Ms Formby worked as a trade unionist, working her way from branch secretary of the Transport and General Workers' Union to the regional secretary of Unite for south-east England.
    She joined Labour's National Executive Committee - the party's governing body - in 2011.
     
    #34865
  6. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    ****in hell kiwi, no offence mate but your pastes just take up full pages! My index finger is so muscular now!
     
    #34866
  7. easthertsr

    easthertsr Member

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    The ambassador reports are exactly what every ambassador in Washington has been reporting for the last two/three years. I'm guessing this but I'd be willing to wager money on it. Here is someone so out of the league it's not true, barely literate, unimaginably stupid and totally out of his depth. Anyone who voted Brexit party just think for a moment that Nigel likes this guy and wants him to win! My God how on Earth have we got to this point? This is time the people took a deep breath and thought where do we really want to go? I fear for my children and grandchildren.
     
    #34867
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  8. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    use the other hand for a while
     
    #34868
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  9. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Are they complaining about a programme that hasn't even been on yet
    Are they so sure that they are going to look bad
     
    #34869
  10. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    #34870

  11. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Isabel Oakeshott taking legal action against the Guardian for defamation over insinuations in an article that she only secured the Kim Darroch scoop because she was sleeping with Farage or Banks
     
    #34871
  12. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    They're about as impartial as they are with Boris. That's the state of British politics today, what a state...
     
    #34872
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  13. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    drain the swamp
     
    #34873
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  14. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    Fair. She must have been sleeping with someone else too.
     
    #34874
  15. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    Kiwi! If you got to post all this sh*te, why don't you just copy and paste the link? It would save us getting finger cramps scrolling past, and give errh cred to the errh journalists.
     
    #34875
  16. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    Censorship. You'll be asking him to sign one of Corbyn's NDA's next!
     
    #34876
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  17. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    The mistake is in believing that democracy is a finished product - it isn't it's a never ending process. The minute you stop democratizing it's gone. The difference is that the EU is engaged in a process of transfering democratic forms from the national to the supra national level - which is still a process, whereas Britain thinks it's arrived at the end of the journey.
     
    #34877
  18. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Rather than posting all this second hand (too long to read all of it), maybe it would be better to try to say what you think anti Semitism is, as distinct from criticism of Zionism or the Israeli government. Then try to show where individual Labour MPs have crossed the line - if they have. The danger is that the charge of anti Semitism is too easy to make, and is being used to stifle legitimate criticism.
     
    #34878
  19. Woodyhoopleson

    Woodyhoopleson Well-Known Member

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    Absofuckinglutely right.
     
    #34879
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  20. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    when did you all get the attention spans of goldfish
    :emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0100-smile:emoticon-0100-smile
    is that enough smilies
     
    #34880
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