They have had Electric driven goods vehicles since early 1950s why has it taken them so long to transfer this data to car engines.........??? Oh before anyone says because the batteries weren't good enough........The only known development on batteries didn't really start until the late nineties in 10 years they had developed rapidly with almost known technology. They are still improving as we speak............(I don't have proof of this. This was after a discussion with a person who is actually doing some work on these projects)
OK, I know the answer to this Beddy. But I'd like you to have a good old speculate as to why electric motors haven't become the accepted norm. Because what you write above is perfectly true. And, in actual fact, the electric motor and battery was once more popular than the internal combustion engine for transportation. Anyway, tell me what you think. I won't be judgemental. I'm just interested.
I live in the countryside. I have a car and I drive everywhere as do most people, even the self-righteous. (Not aimed at you SIS)
Indeed. I live in the real world too. I have to use ICE vehicles at times, simply because there aren't enough accessible EV types. What I'm saying is that we have to stop celebrating the ICE vehicle like its a plaything. They are killing us slowly, but the rate is getting faster. This is something we can't directly blame on the Tories or the rich. This is our fault just as much as anyone else's, because we have become compliant. ICE vehicles should come with a massive Government Health Warning. They almost make smoking cigarettes look responsible.
My understanding is that the oil conglomerates had a hand in this. As did the motor manufacturers. They were interested in more reliable batteries but longevity and power was not part of that. My understanding is the most powerful batteries were built for the Mercedes huge old 10 and 12 ltr models. Even bigger than the average lorry battery of the day. The next biggest battery and power output was for the electric driven motors on submarines that I know of. As a boy at school I worked as a van boy on an electric 5 toner........ delivering lemonades. Although my memory was mostly of the electric milk floats. Edit.....10 and 12 ltr engines as in 10 and 12 cylinder motors.!!
Yes, I understand there's a lot of personal experience going on there. The truth is both simple and complicated. The simple answer is that there has always been more money to be made, from the internal combustion engine vehicle, with less development required, than the electric vehicle. And it is entirely true that the limit to the electric vehicle has been the battery, of which there had been virtually no development in one hundred years. They replaced the purified water with a gel and sealed the battery - that's it, in 100 years. Then the laptop computer and mobile phone came along, and the locked doors to battery development couldn't be stopped. Because there was also money in it. This is why EVs have mobile phones to thank for their new existence. Phones went from this: which could only phone and last for 20 minutes to this: which is a powerful computer in your hand, and which lasts all day even when it never gets to stand-by, because of battery and technology development. So just think how advanced the electric vehicle might have been by now if it hadn't been held back over a hundred years ago. And here is the complicated answer. It was a combination of the weaknesses of electrical infrastructure, at the time [easily surmountable almost straight away] and the limited range of batteries [not so easily surmountable without development] that eventually allowed the new oil companies to find a market. In the cities, electric vehicles were perfect. Trams and battery vehicles easily had enough going for them, and they were ultra reliable. And that's where most people lived, so fossil fuel vehicles weren't going to build a business on countryside sales. FFVs were dirty, noisy, prone to break down, and required regular servicing. Yet they still won because Henry Ford managed to make them cheap, relatively reliable, not so noisy, and they could be driven into town from the countryside. Besides this, the oil companies, especially in the USA, bought up electric transportation companies and destroyed them - literally. They crushed the vehicles. And, as said before, there was money to be made out of consumers in buying petrol, oil, getting the vehicles serviced and repaired. All they had to do was throw a lifestyle story at people that was attractive. And the consumer bought the story. So well did we buy the story that even when a hugely superior electric car product comes along in the 21st century, many of us refuse to accept it. And that's aside from the pollution aspect. So why do we refuse to accept it? Because we've accepted the bullshit story fed to us for a hundred years [I entirely include myself here, so don't think I'm preaching - I'm just being honest about it]. Besides which, there has been almost no alternative. Now there is. It's been here a good while, but for most people it is still too expensive. Fair enough - they will get a lot cheaper still. Even now though, the total cost of ownership of an EV is way cheaper than a FFV with a ticket price several thousands of pounds less. Simply because there's less to go wrong and maintain. So EVs are already cheaper. Wait for what happens when the ticket prices become the same - and they will in just a few years. This is part of the reason why secondhand FFV values are falling off a cliff. They are becoming worthless. Let's see - halfway though 2019... so it will become totally idiotic to buy a new FFV by 2022, maybe 2023. That's under 3-4 years. So, I'd hang on to what you've got, and go and make your next new car an EV, simply because it will be much cheaper to own and resell. That's aside from it being a better, cleaner vehicle anyway. And the more new EVs there are, the more secondhand ones will eventually become available. Last thing: my eldest brother is a retired motor engineer. He started out as a refrigeration engineer, so he knows all about heat pumps [must ask him about those]. But he knows the internal combustion engine inside out. He can describe to me why BMW big end shells are so obviously badly designed, for example, and thousands of other things. About 30 years ago I asked him what we needed to do start cleaning up the atmosphere, because I was so concerned about what the hard climate change data was telling us. He said that we needed a big development in battery technology. At the time he couldn't see that coming, even though it had already started. But he did say that electric motors were way superior to internal combustion engines, not simply because of their efficiency, but also because of their drive characteristics. And at the end he said, 'and the pollution would be kept at the power station end where it can be far more easily dealt with.' And so we're here.
you need an early night! I don't think anyone's disagreeing with you. ..... John ...... retired chemical / automotive engineer
It was just an explanation for Beddy. I'm getting plenty of sleep. Good to see you're onboard. I've decided its time to be more vocal about this because I've waited over 30 years for the world to come upto speed.
Talking of batteries and mobile phones........during a visit to Kennedy space centre in eighties or nineties we were told that the computer power in the first space craft that went to the moon had less computer power than an average mobile of that day and age. When you think of the technical changes I have seen and wondered at in my lifetime. I often wonder what today’s generations are going to see in the future...........
Yeah, it is amazing. Some of the most mind boggling stuff I've read and viewed about is the technology developed to get to the Moon. We all know about Apollo 11 and Project Apollo, but Project Gemini and the latter stages of Project Mercury were all directly concerned with getting to the Moon. Some beautiful analogue technology resulted, and a wee sprinkling of digital computers, which had to be incredibly efficient, because they had so little computing power. As to what we'll see in the future? Well, if all goes well, I think we'll see a proper end to poverty. With few exceptions, everyone will have access to genius level thinking. Diseases and cancers should be eliminated eventually. People will work and create because they want to, not because they have to. Etcetera. But it all has to go well in the right direction. Obstacles to this future are people like Trump. Ironically, he's just making things worse for himself.
People tolerate people for a while then they start to wisen up and start the ball rolling to get rid. Mind you whether that is after another war in the Middle East or before is a matter of conjecture.
Those cyclists do annoy me, but it is very tempting to do similar. Traffic light holds are so long though, that you can safely get off the bike. Wheel it around the corner into the crossing lane. Wait for the sequence to allow you to cross. Cross the road, rejoin the road you want, get on and ride away and still be nearly 100 yards further down the road than if you had waited for the lights to change. If cyclists did that instead of taking chances, nobody could moan. Of course, they still would, but motorists aren't saints. Well, some are Southampton FC supporters.
While traditional car makers are being dragged against their will towards an electric transport future, there seems to be no such reluctance from the aviation industry. Airbus, Rolls-Royce and Siemens have got together to install a 2 megawatt electric motor to an HS146 airliner, and if trials are successful they will fit another and produce a commercial hybrid airliner for short to medium haul.That's a start: https://simpleflying.com/airbus-electric-a320neo/
Now you are talking my language. Always been fascinated by Project Mercury/Gemini/Apollo. This is a great listen from the BBC to celebrate 50 years on July 20th since Neil Armstrong took that one small step for a man, but one giant leap for mankind. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csz4dj Thirteen Minutes to the Moon - BBC Podcast
Except he left out the 'a' which made the sentence meaningless....and therefore made the whole expedition pointless for pedants. I bet he practiced that sentence for months as well...must have really upset the committee who decided on it. I was working an early morning factory shift and I had less than two hours sleep because they took so long to land. Still it was worth it.
