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AST Meeting Tells of Difficulties

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Robin van Bergkamp, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. I try to check into Le Grove whenever I can. Today's was primarily about the AST ( Arsenal Supporters' Trust ) meeting os last night and it makes for some pretty serious reading

    http://le-grove.co.uk/

    Of greatest concern is the finance and I quote Le Grove here to save you looking up the link


    Firstly on the matter of correlation which the write of Le Grove says he does not understand. Presumably this fact is borne out by surveys and much analysis and it is that from the available information, a club that pays low wages usually ends up having a lower league position. It makes sense if you consider that higher wages are paid to extraordinary players, the presence of whom, raises the likelihood of a club performing better in the league. The 0.75 correlation simply means that for every four clubs that are surveyed, the theory of wages to league position is true in three of these cases.

    Onto the discussion -

    Our commercial revenue is depressing. While I appreciate that Utd have a greater following, sure ours cannot be that low as to be trounced even by Liverpool on this front.

    It was very clear from the manner by which the transfers were handled that not much headway has been made beyond the youth policy. One wonders how much we would be suffering now if it hadn't been for the result at Man U and the injuries to TV and JW.

    The sooner that wages policy is thrown out, the better. It seriously denies us the ability to progress. If anything it is highly regressive.



    It makes one wonder how much of what is written is the truth and nothing but the truth. Why David Dein has come out so much in support of Arsene and whether this backing by him is more a result of the past than what is currently happening? The latter is a very dangerous path and is a risky game Arsene is playing with the future of our beloved club. The report card of someone who earns something in the region of £135K could look a lot better based on current performance.


    So what next Gooners?

    Time for the next round of Arsene Wenger threads.........
     
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  2. The Magic Man

    The Magic Man Well-Known Member

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    Interesting 'facts'. This is obviously a little subjective and it would be interesting to know how much of this is actually true.

    I for one, can not believe " If we renew Vermaelen, Song, Theo and Robin, we’ll make a loss the year after as things stand currently."

    Still, worrying times.

    But ultimately, we will never be able to compete with teams like Man City and Chelsea, who have an endless budget. I only care that the club does not get into debt and become unsustainable. Still believe in Wenger, but the next coupld of years are key. If we no longer qualify for the CL, then it may be time for a change of philosophy and possibly manager.
     
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  3. enigma

    enigma Well-Known Member

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    Interesting read, not sure I'm agreeing with it tho, the bite size fact bit gives it away and suggests it lacks credibility, I mean nick B woth 25 mil if we had sold him for 10, if we sold him for 10 he would be worth 10, bit of a stupid fact. And I really don't believe nick B will ever be worth 25 million

    The one that is really interesting is how the article suggest that we have so much money to spend, yet also suggest that if we renew verm, theo, song and RVP contracts we will make a loss, this does not suggest that we have a lot of money and contradicts what is basically being said in the first part of the article. In fact it is actually very worrying and suggest we are far from financially stable if we are going to make a loss by renewing 4 contracts.

    The bit about us paying too much too much of the squad is spot on tho, and I totally agree with it, only players that have earned the right should be earning 50k a week.
     
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  4. While I appreciate that Utd will always outsell us on most fronts I cannot help but thinking that SAF's policy of planning for silverware one year to the next and especially if there is a barren year may be the right approach. Look at how they have climbed out of or are emerging from their £700m hole of a year or so ago.

    Arsene has been very good as selling us and the press his methods and largely they have been backed by results. That though is more to do with the past when his coming to the club brought a new way of thinking, a scientific approach that looked at diets, fitness etc. The game has since then moved on and we have not seemingly kept pace. In a way, had the team of last year converted it would have been a vindication of Arsene's methods. Sadly for him and us, they bottled, proving that a blend of experience and youthful prowess was the way to go.

    In the time I have been following Arsenal and until the coming of Arsene, George Graham was the most successful manager. He had an early success with the League Cup which was followed by two great championships and success in Europe. Then he let the players grow old. In a not too dissimilar way, Arsene brought us great success but I wonder if he, like Graham is now at a stage where the magic is all but used up. Unless he can pull something out of the hat, it may be best to remember the good times.
     
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  5. The Magic Man

    The Magic Man Well-Known Member

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    Same here, but I have enjoyed watching Wengers brand of football than Grahams. Even our worst players over the last 10+ years have been better than the likes of Caesar, Selley, Hillier, Kiwomya etc.

    You also have to remember that the board were unlikely to get rid of Graham because of previous success, until he became interested in brown paper bags and then they had no choice but to sack him.
     
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  6. It would be interesting to see how much Dear Nicklas is worth at the close of this season. If he excels at Sunderland, he may turn a few heads. A great enigma, our Nick. Pun not exactly intended my friend.

    I read the 50mil as being a reserve for transfers. Like you though I can't see how the renewal of those contracts would push us into a loss. If that were the case we would be making a loss now UNLESS of course the writer is taking into account, reduced gate receipts as evidenced by the returned Bolton tickets...

    I think NB52 was indeed earning 50K per week which only goes to show that we have this policy completely wrong. Major Fail there and I don't know how Arsene managed to pull this policy off. Then again, he seems to have little opposition within the hallowed halls of the stadium.
     
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  7. goonercymraeg

    goonercymraeg Amnesia
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    Who told you what was in todays Le Grove ?<whistle>
     
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  8. The Bonstar Wandit

    The Bonstar Wandit Well-Known Member

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    Nicky B on 50k/wk = 2.5m per year. If he has 6 years left on his contract (he most likely signed an 8 year contract a couple of years ago), then that's 15m.

    Add that to the 10m transfer fee and you get 25m.

    I agree with paying too much to young / poor players. That's why Almunia, Squillaci, Denilson are still at the club. Because no-one would pay their wages.
     
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  9. A goonerbird from Wales.

    Actually I try to read Le Grove as much as I can and have it bookmarked.

    OK OK you were right about the logo

    Want me to write that out 50 times, do you? <laugh>


    Not a chance!!!
    please log in to view this image
     
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  10. goonercymraeg

    goonercymraeg Amnesia
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    49 times will do <ok>
     
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  11. Ahh thanks Bon:emoticon-0171-star: So it's that cost plus salary equation again.....


    And that seems to be down to Arsene I believe.


    It's a bit of a mess really and I think the loss of David Dein has a far greater impact on us which is only beginning to surface. There really is very little accountability at Arsenal which is a worrying way to run a business, let alone the third most valuable football club in the world ( list according to Forbes )
     
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  12. Grizzly

    Grizzly Active Member

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    If B52 is earning £50k a week then why is he so vocal in the media ?
    Does he think he's worth more ? Best of luck with that job search.

    I think it's unfair to compare the George Graham era to todays, it was more of a level playing field in the 80s and 90s, every player had their value and on the whole transfers were consitent, what's happened in the last 10 years is that Chelsea ripped up the book of transfers and literally paid double a players true value - and topped it up with sick salaries as well. Man Utd, having been a well run profitable club then went into panic mode and bought more £15m+ players than anyone so they stayed ahead of the game, the only reason their transfer outlay looks as good as it does is because Madrid were mug enough to pay £80m for Ronaldo.
    Then along came Man City whose first salvo in the transfer market was a £100m for Kaka.
    So those who think we should be competing with the likes of Man City and Chelsea I say beware what you wish for, Arsenal could easily break the bank and buy 6 world class players and win the league next year and we can all stand in the pub on a Friday night gloating about our achievements, then 2 years down the line we end up in financial ruin and find we're like another Leeds or Portsmouth.
    I'd prefer financial security and entertainment over trophies
     
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  13. The Bonstar Wandit

    The Bonstar Wandit Well-Known Member

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    I just don't get where all the money is!?

    The idea of the new stadium was increased capacity would mean more money available. the debt payments have gone down year on year, I'm sure it was all being paid off ahead of schedule a while ago.

    I thought the club would have more money than ever before right now!? Unless they're paying the players in Euro's instead of Pounds - which I believe some clubs do?? With the current exchange rates that'd be costing a huge amount.

    There have been wage rises, but Fabregas and Nasri were on good money, as was Denilson, and Nicky B. So if they've been sold, or gone on loan, then there should be some serious cash floating around in wages now.

    The money is confusing me the most right now.
     
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  14. enigma

    enigma Well-Known Member

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    Excellent point, the landscape has changed so much in the last 10 years, players earning 200k a week is a total disgrace when the real heros in this country like nurses and service men and women can hardly afford to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads due to rising food, rent and fuel costs. The fact that players wages are still increasing when everyone else's wages are either being frozen or cut shows there is something fundamentally wrong with football, and it is completely out of touch with reality and the dedicated supporters who are the real people who make football clubs great.
     
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  15. The pursuit of personal goals by the owners of Chelsea and Man City do the sport no favours. Frankly I don't think the FFP rules do enough to address the problem but that is perhaps for another thread.

    My fault if I was unclear about drawing a parallel with the days of George Graham. Yes I do agree about it being more of a level playing field back then and what fan wouldn't perhaps prefer a return to the circumstances of those times when football was more of a sport than it is today. I drew in the comparison with George Graham purely to suggest that like Graham, Arsene Wenger has enjoyed early success with the club and what was common to both was the downward trend that followed. Different reasons may have accounted for the way both ears took on a ' similar ' trend but my point essentially was that no manager is successful forever. Arsene could have come close changing that last year or indeed even in 2008 but like our last season, the 2008 year had it's flaws. We have always been lacking something. Now sadly, we lack a lot more... While Graham came to a dead halt as far as I recall, Arsene's sadly was down to that wrong turn he made in not using a blend of experience and youth in the club. Now it could be a case of too little and too late.

    If I may return to Le Grove again, one other thing the blog bore out that should not be overlooked is this

    While this could be taken as foresight, it also perhaps is indicative of a realisation that we have perhaps become less than competitive. It is this latter point that saddens me.
     
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  16. Grizzly

    Grizzly Active Member

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    ''The fact that players wages are still increasing when everyone else's wages are either being frozen or cut shows there is something fundamentally wrong with football''

    The people who make these decisions have no concept of money or the value of it, they don't care if a pint is £3 or £3k if they want a pint they'll pay the money.
    These people aren't aware of the daily struggle Mr normal has, they are not affected by inflation, increased VAT, rising gas/elec prices, they're not faced with decision like can I get by with £20 diesel in the tank till payday or do I fill her up and delve into the overdraft ?
    These people spend more time in life thinking about how much to tip in restaurants than reconciling bank statements
     
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  17. Killa_Kam

    Killa_Kam Member

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    <ok>
     
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