Off Topic UK / EU Future

Labour finally moving to a referendum on any deal... Well Jeremy you played that one out eh..

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Jean Claude-Junker said that it was crystal clear that the EU would not reopen negotiations with the UK. The team that acted on behalf of the EU is now being broken up and members going on to other jobs. Why then are so many of the candidates for the PM's job saying they will go back for a different deal. Could it be that most of the Tory party is negotiating with itself still, and haven't noticed that things have moved on?
Sabine Weyand, the brains behind the withdrawal agreement, will be leaving the Commission’s Article 50 taskforce next week to start a new job running the EU’s trade department, so any trade deals that the UK wishes to conduct will be be done with her and her team.

 

I remember so clearly a wet afternoon when I sat indoors and watched a Lords Brexit committee take evidence from two people sat side by side. A lady from the NFU described with great clarity the problems that Brexit would create for the Welsh sheep breeders. She described how an American company had built a state of the art processing plant, providing employment for many people in the area, and how it would lose its purpose if we left the EU. Next to her sat Tim Martin the owner of Wetherspoons who said that he would expect to be exempt from any new regulations on employing cheap labour from the EU. There could not have been a greater divergence of two people, one who was on top of her facts and figures and one who refused to confront the reality of what he was facing.
The lady seems to have been correct as the Housing Minister who fancies a shot at being the PM has confirmed that what she said was correct. 80,000 tonnes of sheep meat is exported to the EU each year, which he admits could almost come to a stop. As he comes from a farming area he needed a solution as to what should be done with this huge surplus. Let the government buy it up, then feed lamb chops to school kids and people in hospitals. Nothing much about the parts that get sent abroad because the population in the UK will not eat it, and he didn't seem to understand that the animal provides more than lamb chops. Prof. Minford the darling of the leave brigade has said that leaving without a deal would see the end of British farming, but we shouldn't worry as all the people who work on the land, are employed in sheep processing plants etc. can all become graphic designers, or create new websites.
So as the Housing Minister tries to talk about a subject he doesn't understand, that really doesn't matter, as most of the contenders would not understand farming.

 

This is a core issue with the broad brushing of so many Brexiters.... They care little for issues many many individuals will face...

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Shall we rename this thread 'daily whinge'. It is getting rather boring the constant UK bashing.

 

Maybe you would like to produce some thoughtful insights about the way that your party has led the country into the situation of political gridlock?

 

Isn't it about time we realized that Brexit is being driven by English nationalism. We seem to be stumbling to some kind of national independence which is hardly ever mentioned, let alone being prepared for. Stripping away the rhetoric Brexit is exclusively an English thing - the entity most likely to emerge is an England stripped of its Celtic fringe. I do not believe that if Scotland and N. Ireland broke away, that the Welsh would be happy to be alone with us for any length of time. But the idea of England standing proudly alone is radically new - other than for a short time under Athelstan, and after being conquered by Cnut the Dane. We have never really stood alone, but have nearly always been part of a larger entity of some sort. But nobody really talks about England, in all of this - although an independent England is the most logical outcome of Brexit. When it comes down to it nationalism is always about drawing the line between 'them' and 'us'. The Brexiters are certain about who 'they' are - ie. Brussels bureaucrats and immigrants, but have not worked out the second part yet. There is no shared narrative of England's past which can function as a unifying factor here - it is difficult to reconcile The Levellers, the Tollpuddle Martyrs, Mary Wollstonecraft and Thomas Paine, on the one hand, with that of monarchs, generals and imperial power, on the other - yet which of those is the most authentically English ? Surely a rebirth of English nationalism would be a threat to the monarchy. Yet still the Brexiteers are running around waving their Union Jacks, claiming the morally high ground on patriotism - forgetting, conveniently, that if the Union Jack ever ceases to have any meaning, other than in a museum, then they will have been greatly responsible.

 

Agreed.. Watching springwatch last night and hearing just in passing howeuropean funding currently helping conservation projects.. The programme was set in Scotland.. I for one would be more motivated to vote for Scottish independence.. Certainly do much good comes from the EU when it comes to conservation...

I really don't see the two main UK parties having any real interest in funding...

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Matthew Lynn a financial journalist writing in The Telegraph about the EU GDPR legislation made the following observaton:

"In truth, the legislation of data protection is a perfect example of how the EU steadily erodes the competitiveness of Europe. Its natural way of operating is to force through lots of overly complex regulations driven by lobbyists and pressure groups, most of them generously funded by existing dominant corporations, all of which ends up costing smaller companies money, suppress entrepreneurship, and curb competition".

This has reduced the funding of European companies compared to the US and restricts the creation of jobs in the EU because start up companies cannot afford to comply with the onerous legislation.

Why do you wish to belong to a club that suppresses innovation, entrepreneurship and job creation?

 

This won't go down well with our regular end of the world doom merchants, scully.
Nice post.

 

But the acid test is would you prefer to live in the EU. or in the USA ?
The EU. distributes wealth more evenly.
Has better public transport
Better education systems
Better food safety standards
Better health care, and costs
Has better job security
More lenient judicial system (fewer incarcarations, and no executions)
Europe is also not so car-centric
The police are less violent
Europe has safer streets
Starts fewer wars
and has fewer bullets flying around

I know which I prefer !

 

Rather live in the U.K. Despite the silly negative tales.

 

This actually brings out into the open the debate about how much legislation is good for people. Countries, including China, Brazil and members of the European Union, have weighed the potential risks and decided to outlaw potassium bromate in food. India banned it in 2016, and the UK has forbidden it since 1990. Azodicarbonamide has been banned for consumption by the European Union for over a decade. However in the USA the laws still allow such additives because they are cheap. It is perfectly fair to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of laws to protect people, but I would rather be on the safe side when it comes down to food safety or data protection, than simply say we go for the lowest standards to save money.

 

Good to see that you admit that the existing membership of the EU is better than living in the USA.

 

Great to see the fools that spent money on the crowd funding to get Boris in court were taken for a ride by the Spiv.
He enjoyed spending their money on himself. You can fool some of the people some of the time.

 

I don't know enough about the US to judge.

I do know there are many expats that dream of returning to the UK but cannot afford to.

 

Another one of your wild claims. I live here and know a fair number of expats, and the last thing they would want to do is return to the UK. Most actually do not enjoy even short visits, and would not go unless they had reasons to do so.

 

You've got me thinking about whether that is the same here Frenchie. There are about 120,000 Britons living in Germany but, on the whole, they may be in a different situation to those in France. Apparently - our average age is 46, and we have been here (on average) 20 years. Only 7% are retired - so, mostly, we came here for reasons of work or love (in my case the latter). There are some odd bods around left over from the British Army - and some for dubious reasons, like avoiding maintainance payments in England, or who have other problems there ! Apparently 15% of us are either living with or are married to a German partner, and one in seven of us have dual nationality. So, that's the statistical bit done and out of the way. Apart from those who congregate around Irish pubs, or language schools in the bigger cities, we are highly integrated and, mostly, thoroughly bilingual. In my case I rarely use English, and so make up for it on here ! I guess that, mostly, we're very isolated from each other at least in comparison with France or Spain. Sometimes living my whole life in another language is a strain - and I would love to 'let rip' in an English pub. There are many things I miss about England - even after 30 years, but the country has changed in that time. The streets are the same, and the language, but in other ways I now feel like a foreigner there - at least initially. Homesickness - still have it, but it is for an England which has gone. I can't imagine living there again - but for others here it may be different.

 

Not when they can only afford a caravan back in the U.K.

 

Interestingly I found out recently that there was a far higher figure of Britons who have come here to work than I expected. I cannot find the actual figures at the moment, but it was more than half. I know some who came here on postings from the UK and have never returned. My English neighbours across the road left well paid jobs in Taunton because they wanted to bring up their children in a different type of society. They are both working here, probably for less money than they could earn in England, but for them it is all about lifestyle.
I have said more than once that the expats in this area do not live that closely together, unlike some areas where they do congregate in conclaves. My monthly dinner involves most of us driving for an hour to meet up. Because we live more closely with the French, language does require working at. I am not fluent especially with some of the regional accents, but as I live where three regions come together they do vary. Still I can hold a reasonable conversation for ten minutes or so before my brain goes into standby mode. (Longer when fuelled with a copious supply of the red stuff) The French do love to have very deep discussions on TV, and they do help you to see that there is a big difference in outlook about what life is about. Family and friends are more important than owning a larger house than your neighbour.
I go to England about twice a year for a few days at a time, but that is because I have to. The only thing I miss is the walk along Vicarage Road, but even that doesn't seem so important these days. Banbury where I worked for a long time was a pretty well kept small market town forty years ago. Today it is run down with so many empty shops, fly posting on the windows, and to be honest it is very different to the place I liked. I lived in a village that has been spoilt by too much development, and is now to have the HS2 running through it. One of my friends went back to England for a friends funeral last year, the first time in ten years he had been back. He was horrified at the changes, and hoped he would not have to go again. Extreme view, but I hear that sort of remark quite often.