I have been driving back from the NE and have just got home from the match and this is the first time I have managed to get on the forum on my laptop (not just my phone). I first heard the news about Gyan on the radio while parking up for the match and I was furious. I then watched the game which was not terrible but certainly not inspiring. I left the game thinking Bruce Out. I then spoke to a few people on the way out and listened to Bruce's interview and I changed my stance. As far as the tactics go I think Bruce did not do much wrong. 451 then changed it to 442 when we went 1 down. Bought attacking subs on early. The 11 that started were our strongest available players too. On a positive note Brown looked superb and Bendtner can definitely play the big man up top, he bought the ball down well and challenged in the air. What he needs is a SKP or Bent next to him. My point is although it was not great it was not terrible either. My conclusions though are that something is very wrong at the top. Changing the manager will not solve the problem. There is an obvious difference in opinion about money. I suspect the following: Bruce says to Quinn I need to rebuild, we can get XYZ on free transfers or relatively cheaply, we can also get 2 ex Man U players with experience and a couple of good young prospects for the future. But I am also going to need to pay larger amounts for a new Striker and LW. Quinn comes back and says, that's fine but you will have to let Henderson go to help finance it, you can then get the free's and cheaper options in. We then need to get a few high earners out the door Steed, Anton, Ringo etc... and you can then buy your more expensive options once we are financially secure. I think the first part happened but then for some reason the 2nd part did not. Gyan got wind of it and thought if money is a problem I am off!!! Now Bruce is in an impossible situation. He is missing the 2 players he needed to complete his plan for this season plus his best player and prized asset is gone. I think Bruce is pissed off and that's why rather than toeing the party line he was honest in his interview after the game I am extremely worried now. This is the sort of thing that leads to relegation. I hope that we have some sort of cash flow problem which will be sorted out by Jan. In reality we must buy a goalscorer to partner Bendtner or we are in big big trouble. We also need a LW. For now I see our strongest 11 as follows: Migg OShea Brown Bramble Bardo Colback Catts Gardener Sess Bendtner Richardson Bendtner needs to quick players around him, Sess is far better on the right than on the left and Larsson was dreadful against Chelsea. In Jan we must buy a striker and a LW and they must be quality. I don't think changing the manager will help, I will tell you why... If there is no money for decent players, there will be no money for a decent manager, we will end up with a cheap replacement, there is no chance of getting a MON or Mark Hughes no chance at all. We need answers and we need them now, Quinny where are you and whats going on???
very good post vegas and a good assumtion, we do need someone to answer if its fact but I cant see who will do it. Thats a worry.
I agree apart from your strongest 11 the club need to come out and tell the fans their intentions have we got money or not its simple JUST TELL US THE TRUTH If not at least we will know we will not be getting Helmes Sissoko Demba-Cisse and may be looking at the poundshop again and not Harrods I do not rate Mig Larrson should be in there Richardson should be out of there Vaughan should be in also
I agree, the thing I cannot figure out is the 8m for Wickham? if we had no money then taking an 8m punt on an 18yo seems a little strange. I do wish they would be honest with us because then we could have realistic aspirations. One thing is for sure Ellis Short has plenty of money and that's the worry, if he is not putting it into the club why not??
I think the whickham deal is the key in the argument. I have no doubt the kid could have a big future but we are not a club who can wait we needed a striker now. So if money is tight £8m on a kidd is a big risk
The 8m on Wickham gobsmacked me and at the time I kept my mouth shut as I couldn't understand it. Then for Bruce to come out and say he was bought as a prospect as if we are ManU, was just dumbfounding. We can't carry passengers we aren't big enough. Even Bruce has to see the glaring holes in our team.
Agreed, that's why I think Bruce had a much bigger plan and only half of it was played out for whatever reason.
As a work of pure fiction Vegas it has some merit but I think you have looked to deeply into it to help Bruce out IMO. I reckon Bruce was given a transfer budget based on moving players out. The free spending days are over in football and a more balanced financial thinking has come to bare. Thats not a bad thing BTW. Bruce took a look at his squad and sold the player least likely to disrupt his formation but for whom carried the largest price tag. Henderson for £20m. That was his budget and he went about his business bringing in the other lads. However, he spent some £12m on Won, Wickham and Elmo; £5m on Gardener; £6m on Brown and O Shea and then ran out of money and had to sacrifice Anton to balance the books. Thats why we were not actively going for N'Zog or another striker. The budget was done. Save for selling another player, no more money was forthcoming. Although everyone knew that Gyan wanted away, SB must have thought he would call his bluff and get through the transfer window but got wind of his departure just before the deadline and then the panic button was pushed. I reckon he went back to Quinn and short with the begging bowl for a striker and was told you've had your lot. Short would have asked the question, as would hopefully Quinn, why did you spend £10m on the 2 young lads when you needed players for today not tomorrow? I reckon there is a bit of a gap appearing between manager and Chairman/Owner hence NQ has gone to ground for the last 3 or 4 weeks. Hence we threw a lifeline to Bendtner which thankfully he took. Bruce has been the architect of his own downfall by ignoring the glaring absence of a left winger, left back and 1 maybe 2 strikers at least ready to play now. In Elmo, Wickham and Won he could have better utilised £12m on a striker and a winger. Now, we are stuck with round pegs and square holes until January, when he can bring in a couple of players, or until he is replaced. The former is less likely than the latter IMO. Bruce has gambled on him being able to keep Gyan as he did with Bent. He lost both players inside 9 months. Coincidence? Bad luck? Or is there more to it? He was given money from Henderson sale with a remit to strengthen the left side and up front and improve the performances. He did neither and now he is fiddling around with the team on a week to week basis, trying to find a way forward. 2 years & 5 transfer windows into his management at SAFC and he still hasn't got a clue who is his best 11; what formation to play, or which players to play where? We have lost 8 out of 9 home games in a row now and this slump has been in place for 9 months now, not 4 or 5 games. Its a shambolic piece of gross mismanagement of epic proportions and one that should soon see the back of him as our manager. its as simple as that. He aint good enough and the owner has seen though him.
I agree, totally, with Vegas: now is not the time to change managers. This period reminds me, a lot, of the time just before Peter Reid was sacked. Everyone was calling for his head, and it was duly handed on a plate. However the subsequent years left something to be desired. Remember Sergeant Wilko et al?
The above sounds more fictional to me, you cannot seriously think that Bruce and Quinn did not have a close relationship and discuss transfer dealings. Your take on things is far to simplistic, where did the Bent money go?? or the TV money, there is more to this than meets the eye. Listen I don't care if Bruce goes or stays, all I care about is whats best for SAFC and the 10th finish last year was our best for years, I remember when Reid went and what happened after that. Before I start chanting Bruce out I want to know all the facts, if its the guys fault I will be right next to you calling for his head, but at the moment we just don't know and everything tells me there is more to it than sack the manager got MON in and we all live happily ever after.
Why do fans always take the worst scenario and say if Bruce was sacked we would obviously go for a Howard Wilkinson type of replacement? Its such a bizarre way to think. Its just as easy to say sack Bruce and appoint Ancellotti, Frank Rijkaard, or Jose Mourniho? Neither scenarion (good or bad) is likely to happen anyway but sacking Bruce ands replacing him with MoN, Hughes, Curbishley or even Moyes if it were possible is not a bad thing IMO and would take us forward not backwards.
Because that's what happened previously, lets face it even Bruce's appointment did not exactly get us excited, in fact I was gutted when he got the job, same with Keane.
We still owed Spurs a fortune for Bent when he left and we spent more than the Henderson money this summer, so the surplus form one paid for the deficit in the other. However, I agree we all just want whats best but the trouble is there are a mulitude of opinion as to what that constitutes mate and only 2 men can decide the way we will go.
We can still go to Harrods, but only when the sales are on... I reckon the credit squeeze is hitting. Club can't borrow from the Bank even if they wanted to.
True, like you say we all have opinions, as long as it all turns out for the best which is what we all want then that's the main thing. We don't need to borrow from the bank, Short just made 4000 million from selling part of his Asian business. The guy has plenty of equity.
With all due respect, Cest, i think my reasoning, & that of Vegas, is not bizarre but perfectly rational. The club's actions, of late, do not suggest we're about to splash the cash for Rijkaard, or any other big name. That's why I am urging caution on calling for a change of manager. After all, Bruce as improved our position, year on year, in the Premier league. Let's give time - it's the least we can afford him! Of course, I may be wrong & the Sunderland board may have a change of tack & inject a hefty wadge of money. However, for the time being, I remain to be convinced.
Well reading a lot of the posts today I'll stick my neck out and say that in my opinion Ellis Short is the problem. My reasoning being he is another American owner who came amid a fanfare of money and promises then, like most American owners in PL pulls the plug and will in my opinion look to sell us on asap. He in my opinion was looking for a fast buck a bit of glory and a PL team to brag about to his mates, that was never going to happen at SAFC. The Bent fiasco and now the Gyan one say to me that he is not backing SB with cash, this could mean of course that he has someone else in mind for the job (a yes man from over the pond). Our net spend under Bruce has not been the millions our monochrome friends appear to believe, so I can't see that as a problem for Short. However our league position and statue is I believe the problem for Short. Don't get me wrong here I'm grateful that Ellis Short came to us but, he needs to start making tough decisions now with regard to team building or managerial appointments and, that will involve spending more money.
Its not only his signings its his inability to select a team or use the right tactics. 1 striker and 3 defencive midfielders at home. No strikers at Brighton. I realy rate Myler, but dred him being fit as I believe he'll play 4 defencive midfielders when they are all fit. £ points on Sunday or I'm joining the Bruce out brigade.
