Off Topic So, what now?

should Scotland vote for independence the one thing they are forgetting is that they will have to "pay the EU to join" ...at the moment it is our money ..uk money ..that pays their contribution to get them, the EU grants etc that are in excess of what they as "uK" contributors pay … England citizens per head contribute more gross than WALES NI and Scotland combined ...
will they be told OK you are a new country and you have to meet the guidelines and rules of membership before we vote you in? They could find with their lacking economy, to be in the red.. their taxes would go up health care for aged charged for .. if the gov has no money then someone has to pay it ! there is a lot the people of Scotland do not get told the basic facts ...I visit there 3 or 4 times a year [ about 3 months total] have half my family living there …. the SNP benefit from constituencies that are highly densely populated that overlap each other [vast majority of the population is in a band 50 miles wide and stretch's from Glasgow toEdinburgh ……

 

I don't think this is the case to be fair JGF. I'm pretty sure Scottish people contribute more per capita, but that's under the assumption that they can claim North Sea oil as their own, which is debatable.

 

Not just the Tories mate...I don't think any of them wanted to lead us out of the EU..It's a poison chalice........The people have shouted what they want, but parliament aren't listening!!

 

Is there not an argument to be had though, that if the MP's believe that what the people want isn't good for the country, they should act with what they believe to be best?

I'm honestly not sure where I stand on that by the way so I'm playing devil's advocate. I know it's an extreme example so not that relevant, but the Nazi's rise to power was through a series of referenda. Should they still have been followed, as the people had spoken?

 

I think in all honesty that is an extreme example and is not relevant to our cause.
We elected a government with the promise of a referendum to leave the EU......so, if the MP's don't deliver, what is the point in;
1. Having a general election, voting for government to deliver promises/manifesto
2. Believing that MP's know what's best for the people.
3. Believing that they know what's best for the country.
Not just the Tories, although mainly to blame, have had nearly 3 years to come up with a decent deal for this country.......FAILED.
After this, why would anyone trust the belief of MPs?
The country is divided and is going to take an enormous effort by them to bring it back together again......that will be interesting!!

 

what argument is that? how does that reflect democratic values?

 

Well using my example, the German people democratically elected the Nazi's to power through a referendum on 3 occasions. Was it correct for that to be followed?

I'm actually more on your side on this argument to be honest, but I'm just interested to hear responses.

 

This is the UK not Germany!!! do you ever answer anything when challenged??? Did that Yvette Cooper and the rest left and right doorstep the voters saying I am right you wont be it is what it is?? I googled Yvette Coopers remarks due to this thread. she will damage democracy and politician after politician will do the same in the areas they don't repersent !! conclusion mps are not to be trusted!! why bother voting ever again??

 

Keep going Rob, just muddying the waters.
That's all your fellow Lefties and Chukkas gang have done for 3 years.
To destroy our democracy.
Well done you've succeeded.

Now get on with some work !

 

IMO, Because Parliament is so useless and it's put back to the people, maybe, the only way to bring the country back together again is to have 3 separate votes.
First of all, somehow, Parliament would need to form a group (Leave voters only). They would have a limited time to go off and come up with 3 deals to leave.
The country would vote, one out of the 3 they would prefer.
We (the people) would then have a 2nd vote. The 1st vote verses a NO deal brexit.
The winner of the 2nd Vote would then be up against Remain.
To ensure the quantity of people vote, There must be at least 30 million votes, or it's void and we leave automatically with a No Deal!!!

NB. It's an idea, not what I want, as I believe we had the vote and it should be honored..

 

Bristol City have won a few games, shouldn't you have disappeared by now until LJ's next losing streak?

So just to confirm, you're unable to answer my point? Gotcha.

I've also never once supported Cooper so you're arguing with yourself.

 

WRONG AGAIN .. the uk pays a fixed amount to the EU so every man woman and child is deemed to have paid an equal share because it comes from central government .. do you have a separate demand from HMG asking you for a share of £b they cough up FOR THE EU …………...NO you might pay tax/vat and a lazy neighbour signs on or doesn't but there is no discrimination between W S W & NI residents

 

I answered it. the UK isn't Nazi Germany. the poster is right you are just muddying the waters.

you posted if the MP's believe that what the people want isn't good for the country, they should act with what they believe to be best. isn't that what Yvette Cooper is doing and many more???

so the floors is yours. explain why in the UK in 2019 and NOT Nazi Germany what your argument actually is and how it represents democratic values??? did that Yvette Cooper and the rest left and right doorstep the voters saying i am right you wont be it is what it is?? why vote for somebody like that?

 

We were given a vote and these corrupt MP's in parliament and this two faced leader May are not following the people request.Voting in the UK is corrupt and MP's should never be trusted again.We are as bad as the Brussels mafia.

 

I wasn't referring to the EU, I was referring to taxes, and it can be proven depending on how interpret it. You literally just wrote that English people pay more than Scottish and Wales combined! And now apparently it's all an equal share. Make your mind up. If you're going to antagonise me at least read what you're ****ing posting.

Right. So because it's Germany it has absolutely no relevance to us whatsoever? Brilliant logic. I've explained my argument for remain, there's literally no point going over it again.

"you posted if the MP's believe that what the people want isn't good for the country, they should act with what they believe to be best." - I did not say this at all, because I don't believe it. And I never said anything to support Cooper. Stop lying and making stuff up and actually read posts properly rather than seeing what you want.

I'm sorry gents, I understand stuff in here gets heated but at least most of it is a good debate. And I really respect and find interesting the views of quite a few on here. But the above is genuinely making things up that I haven't written now.

 

1/ what does a Nazi Germany that des not exist have to do with the UK and the referendum?

2/ "you posted if the MP's believe that what the people want isn't good for the country, they should act with what they believe to be best." - I did not say this at all. Yes you did its a quote from your post. so I asked what argument is that? how does that reflect democratic values?

3/ And I never said anything to support Cooper. I didn't say you did. i asked you about Yvette Cooper. she looks a very good example of an MP that thinks what the people want isn't good for the country.

4/Stop lying and making stuff up. where?

5/and actually read posts properly rather than seeing what you want. touche.

6/ I'm sorry gents, I understand stuff in here gets heated. you are the one who gets heated constantly.

 

has the seeds of something !
a voting slip that has 3 options A B C BIG LETTERS ..
Q1 SELECT A /etc B etc C
VOTE FOR 2 CHOICE's First choice ……. second choice
at least 75.1% / 34m whatever the lesser of the electorate must vote failure to hit these figures will result in the Government upholding the will of the people and leaving ...

 

So in summary, every one of those points I've responded to is based on you reading my post incorrectly and thinking I agree with Cooper's stance. Well bloody played.

Just drop this now as it's not my point of view and you're seemingly arguing with me thinking it is my point of view when I've specifically said it's not.

 

Respect?

One post here includes one accusation of lying and making stuff up. Several actually/ at least read and a ****ing for good measure. There are numerous other posts from yourself that follow this theme. Mull it over. You are getting granted the respect despite your heated and antagonistic posting.