I think Brexit is dead, we will be left with a choice between half in half our, worst of both worlds , or revoke article 50, with those 2 scenarios no brainier really , we’d be better off staying in. The majority of MP’s in parliament have gone against the will of the people, Democracy has died in this country. RIP Democracy.
I totally get your sentiment here AshtonRed, but as **** as the MP's have been, they are kind of in an impossible situation. Without meaning to rile anybody, leave won the referendum, but that doesn't mean no deal won. All it means is that a type of leave won, of which we don't know what it is. The Tories are the ones who have completely and utterly failed to answer that question. Because of that, Theresa May should have spent the subsequent time before activating A50 working out what type of leave we were going for, to buy us as much time as possible. What was feasible, what was completely unfeasible, etc. Instead, she activated it early, sent off her minions to have an all-expenses-paid tour of the world while achieving zero trade deals. All the while, we were running out of time, she was delaying the votes from December to now in a desperate attempt to cling to power. Genuinely putting her own interests above the countries. Her actions have been despicable. While I don't agree with it, I do feel for leave voters to an extent. The fact is, 52% did not vote for no deal, so I really hate it when people say that. But 52% did vote to leave, and the Government have completely and utterly arsed up any possibility of leaving in a potentially prosperous way in my opinion. Call it project fear, but I do think no deal will totally shaft us. A good deal was probably possible, but they've totally ****ed up the chance of getting that.
The government that was in power has balls it up, problem is, we have an opposition that is even worse, which had no decent deal (ideas) of their own. 52% did vote to leave and there was no "tick box" about any sort of deals......the voice of the majority wanted out and that's what the people should have. I've said it before, the majority of parliament wanted to remain, so what should have happened is that the MP's that voted to leave, should have formed a group type party, leaving them to come up with either a deal or an option to just come out...this could then have been voted in parliament .........not rocket science is it??
Yeah that's fair. Thing is I don't think we should take any blame away from the Tories for that though. Yes Labour have been p*ss poor but the Tories are the ones who have had the actual control in their hands, and in our time of need they've probably been our worst government in living memory. I honestly have no idea where you go from here. It's basically impossible to go anywhere without p*ssing off half the population. Remain will annoy at least a third of the population. No deal would annoy at least a third of the population. May's 'deal' would probably annoy everybody
Leaving without a deal didn’t win, you are right , leaving did though, it should have been made clear at the end of the process of negotiating with the EU for the best deal they would give us , leaving with that deal or leaving without a deal would be the only options available, this would have focused everyone to ensure the best deal available was reached. The trouble is because most MP’s are in favour of remain they blocked that option. Your point about working out the options before invoking A50 isn’t really valid , firstly the EU would not discuss the framework for leaving before A50 was invoked and also it was left as late as possible due to upcoming EU elections later in the year.
Framework yes but we could still have gone in with an idea of what we wanted regardless I think. Regardless, I think we all agree it could have been handled better.
To be fair that video is absolutely brilliant by the way Cliftonville. Thing is, much of what he says I think is down to the Tories. The cuts to all of our public services, education and health going down the hill, stupidly high house prices and a complete lack of house building since 2010, government contracts being given to the mates and family of ministers.... Labour were almost as bad during the 2000's with regards to some of those points, and while they may be incompetent, it does feel to me that the Tories have caused or at least accelerated this mess. People may well have voted Brexit and UKIP as a protest vote. I feel the same way. But I don't think Brexit is the answer, but let's park that as it's a separate debate which has been had many times.
Is it ironic the SNP continue to vote down Brexit ? Suppose the SNP had WON their referendum to leave the UK. Then Westminster played hardball and said sorry you can't have it, 'we think we know better'. I wonder what the SNP reaction would be - F***ing hypocrites. I also find it incredulous that Chuka and Soubry, or any MP for that matter have the audacity to say they know more than me about business. Not saying I'm a brilliant businessman at all, just that I know through experience, a lot more of the real world than they have or ever will. The only thing they have on me is the Westminster bubble. They, and all remainers, are just chickens and scared of their own shadows. They should have confidence in our great country. Check out Italy or other basket EU countries. Paris is in meltdown every w/e. And ask why folk risk their lives to get across the channel rather than stay in the EU. The only certainty is the country is becoming more divided by the day. And like I've said all along Brexit won't happen - the liberal elite have won. Democracy is dead.
He is equally good live. He was at the Colston Hall last December. Much of what he says is also down to the EU. The EU has not insulated the UK from the market and its forces, it does not prevent wage suppression, recession, austerity, the loss of workers rights the EU allows those contracts to go to their mates … It is something that cannot be parked. It is part of the status quo of the EU. What Mr Pie makes great play on is the self entitled prejudice the Liberal left have for the working class … A class that in many areas voted overwhelmingly for Leave, but find themselves with remaining (new one for me) MP's who feel they are feel they are morally superior and intellectually better than their constituents … That should not be parked either. As Redprintt states .. Democracy is dead …The Liberal elite win.
Sky news have an article on how the MPs voted yesterday: https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...mp-voted-on-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-11663405 I checked out my local MP (Robert Buckland - a Tory) and was astonished - he voted against EVERYTHING. Why the fk vote agains every single option? There is mischief going on there and I can’t get my head around it. I’m sure he’s not the only one - although I haven’t checked.
it appears there was no consensus from anybody what we should do … again you have tunnel vision easily said as hindsight is a wonderful thing.. nobody at that time had a clue what was to happen /procedures. This is the biggest load of B OIL IKS you have stated for a long time... her actions have been the most difficult ever faced by a PM no precedents as aguide and as was proved last night NO ONE in the house has a better plan, even the evil moggy said as much on an interview yesterday … in a round about apologising for the vote of no confidence that TM WON END OF
don't beat yourself up BCRW … HE WAS NOT THE ONY ONE... there were numerous cross party votes that said NO
So you think she was justified in delaying the vote on her deal from December, when time was running out? Give me a break...
Quote of the day," Mrs May has thrown herself on her own sword and missed" I think in her case "Hari- Kari" metaphorically speaking would have been a better idea.
