Off Topic The Moggfather Appreciation Society

Tbh none of it matters, this is a merry-go-round. Trump and Netanyahu will exit the scene and the problems will remain. The next guys will come in and then take a different tack. And if they don't the next ones will. You can't spend your whole existence living behind a wall, running around in tanks and helicopter gunships trying to control a whole population on two fronts. The reality is the problem for Israel is no different to the Palestinians. Their existence will always be defined by conflict until they find peace. The rest is just a facade.

 

The Moderates shall inherit the Earth, my friend.

 

If you ****s are gonna do this **** over two threads can you at least make it personal or interesting ffs.

@Tel don't go into the light bro.

 

Yep, and the solution has to come from within. There needs to be a two state solution, but all the while the US arms and backs Israel, it's a heavily one sided affair.

 

visual aids?

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Zionist scum of the Earth

 

It may take another generation or two. The old guard from military conflict in the 60's and 70's all die or become irrelevant. The right solution is a two state solution. The jewish people rightly have a jewish state, the palestinians (which include christians some seem to forget or too ill-informed to realise) get the West Bank and Gaza. Jerusalem split into East and West with each state having their capital there. 50 years or so after that happens I can imagine both actually building closer links and actually getting on... why, because they'll be each other's closest traders!

 

The IDF soldiers are in an impossible position, they are as much at the beckon call of the politicians as the civilians. I'm not defending their actions, but they are trying to carry out domestic policing through military means. No soldier wants that. So many openly say the situation is hopeless and they are sick of it. Mentally it fcks with your head and in the end you take it out on the people because they're the only ones you can take it out on. It's ironic because you often hear normal German soldiers after the war saying the same about their time in the Ghettos.

 

They dont rightly have it sat on top of the Palastinians houses

Muslims, Jews and Christians have lived there for hundreds of Years...but The Zionist faction needed its own land so took it from others...makes no sense to me. i know men in suits say words to make sense on behalf of the majority but when you break it down...they did and do the exact same thing they have cried about having done to themselves by victimising other people ultimately based on their faith.

Should have shipped them off to the vast baron wastelands of America...they could have thrived and created communites there and planted Vegetation and made everyone happy there.

 

It will take a some time, because not only does a peaceful two state solution need to be brokered, but years of infrastructure rebuilding and investment need to go into Palestine in order to regenerate the place. The will is there from a lot of ordinary Israelis and Palestinians, but as usual it's the ruling elite, in cahoots with the Zionist agenda funded by the US and the military resistance from Hamas, that keep the spiral of mistrust going.

But I am an optimist. And I think Israel/Palestine will find a solution, but like I say it has to come from within.

 

Doesnt matter mate...no kind of understanding is acceptable. You make them sound like they are victimised and in emotional turmoil. Youve just described anyone who has ever commited any kind of atrocity...yeah basically they are not right in the head...dont take it out on the vunerable...cowards.

Yet here we are making threads about 'if smacking a kid is ok'

regardless of the soldiers psychological turmoil i say **** 'em

 

That's not very helpful Spurlock

We are where we are. The hard truth is mate, that there isn't a level-headed Palestinian who doesn't wish they'd taken the situation handed to them in 1947. But we are where we are and it's not about the past generations but the future ones.

 

I agree with most of that, but Hamas in 2006 was not the terrorist organisation they were painted out to be. They were a charitable organisation looking after an impoverished population. They won their election by popular demand as a result, but as soon as they did, the West painted them as terrorists because it suited their agenda - which was the puppet control of the Paalestinian Authority. Hamas was left to manage the Gaza Strip which was basically caged by air, land and sea - their polictial leaders were assassinated one by one and all of this escalated tit for tat violence and in the end to a self-fulfilling prophecy of them actually becoming more and more militant and extreme. At their core they are still a humanitarian organisation and if someone actually had the good will to talk with them, they would get further with the peace process than they ever will with the completely corrupt Palestinian Authority who are selling their people down the road for U.S. dollars.

We have Leave voters who talk about rioting on the streets and death threats against our MPs if Brexit isn't delivered, i.e. just not being tied to a Union.... and yet they don't have the self-awareness to think what they would do if somebody illegally occupied their people for generations while the world turned a blind eye. That doesn't mean I support the indiscriminate killing of innocent life, but I don't believe anyone is in a position to be holier than thou about it either.

 

I agree. Also Hezbollah, painted by the west as a terrorist organisation are a group that run schools, hospitals, news services and infrastructure and and economic investment programmes in Lebanon. When there's no running water, it's Hezbollah who step in and fix it up. They operate in the way that a Govt should and provide social infrastructure services for the people of Lebanon. They have a paramilitary wing and share the same as principles as Hamas in terms of their views on the State of Israel.

But yes, let's not forget. Hamas were democratically elected in Palestine. And it's no wonder they have an extreme stance on Israel, when they have been persecuted relentlessly by them.

 

Just trying to liven it up for Libby

 

I doubt the Iranians or Saudis will let that happen, soon as it looks like it might a few 'insert favoured state' freedom fighters will fire some more rockets at a school and start it all off again, forcing the Israelis to get an eye for an eye is good PR.

 

The problem in Lebanon as with all the problems in and around Israel is the repercussions of previous conflicts. Hezbollah was formed from those. This is why this problem will never be sorted through a military solution. It just perpetuates future fcking turmoil.

 

nah, it all goes back to the Italians blaming the jews for them killing Jesus, which is typical Italian behaviour.

 

True, but without those groups, you leave a vacuum for extremist groups like ISIS to set the agenda. It's no surprise that the status quo is one of paramilitary resistance in the area, given the years of conflict in the middle east. I have hope, that like Sinn Fien, paramilitary groups can negotiate a lasting peace. Although there are far more many players in the middle east and a plethora of conflicting agendas at play.

And lets not forget, like Ern as hinted, a lot of this conflict is played out as proxy wars between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

 

Not so much the proxy wars, Israel and palestine are the only democracies in the ME, if they were to put down the arms and succeed, what would that mean for the autocrats?

 

I think that's wrong, this is typical Italian behaviour...

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... and why not