What a 24 hours!

[johnnywarksmoustache]

Then why did you both vote for Brexit?

I voted Leave because I want the British Parliament to be Sovereign over all of the laws that govern us .

 

[stretchyboy]

We're English....so, whatever happens, we'll put the kettle on, have a cuppa with a few custard creams, and, like we always do, we'll just get on with our daily lives, shrug our shoulders and have a little moan and a tut - we'll deal with whatever the EU want to throw at us in our own style.

 

[Nuggets]

We're English....so, whatever happens, we'll put the kettle on, have a cuppa with a few custard creams, and, like we always do, we'll just get on with our daily lives, shrug our shoulders and have a little moan and a tut - we'll deal with whatever the EU want to throw at us in our own style.

You cannot blame the EU for Britain opting to leave the trading bloc, why on earth would they give us a good deal? They are under no obligation, particularly if other countries see us getting reasonable terms, they'll then demand the same. And the EU certainly cannot be blamed for this government's shambolic negotiations, lack of a coherent plan going forwards, and how senior Tories continue to move the goalposts after a deal has been agreed.

 

[Bigalreigned]

The mess we are in is because David Cameron was scared about losing 15 seats to UKIP in the 2015 General Election and so put forward this dumb referendum to placate supporters and attempt to win a clear majority in Parliament. Bar a small grouping of Conservative MPs, nobody in Parliament seriously entertained a referendum on the EU because the financial, diplomatic, and trade positives outweighed the negatives, despite the EU being a convenient scapegoat for incumbent UK governments and a brilliant way to stir up frenzy and sales for the national tabloids.

The EU is far from perfect, but when you opt out of their network of favourable and beneficial trade partnerships and tariff rates in a globalised economy, you end up shooting yourself in the foot. We've had three years to form trade deals and we've managed seven (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842). It's a joke. We've gone backwards and think that having an isolationist economic approach is going to lead to economic prosperity, when it's realistically going to led to a downturn in jobs (big firms already moving their HQ and manufacturing plants abroad), rising living costs, rising food bills, and a reduction in worker rights.

Do you have any faith that this government, or any potential government currently on offer, is capable of sorting out beneficial trade deals that brings similar or better chances for our people? Of course not. The United States are salivating at hiking prices for the NHS and will seek to further privatize and undercut it (and a load of Tory MPs have stakes or partnerships with private healthcare firms in the UK, so will stand to financially benefit from all this). You've got Tory MPs who will strip away workers rights, such as paid annual leave, which was introduced by the EU. And they don't believe Brexit will be a good thing. Look at the likes of Farage, Johnson et al who shied away from the result and immediately backtracked on the claims they made during the referendum (£350m to NHS, Farage saying a 52-48 lead to Remain should result in another referendum). You've got Conservative MPS like Rees-Mogg who voted for Brexit and has moved his businesses away from the UK, because he knows what's going to happen. You had experts, economists, academics, and people working in relevant industries which said that Brexit would end up with the country being less profitable and financially secure. The country is far from perfect - almost a decade of austerity has gutted public services and the rise of online shopping, as well as the rising of bills and living standards versus slow wage growth, has resulted in the decline and slow death of the high street. Brexit won't solve that, it'll make it worse, due to those rising tariffs and costs.

If you voted for Brexit and you are working or middle class, you have been sold a lie. It's snake oil. If you think the Brexit news bores you now and you just 'want it to be over', keep watching the news over the next several years as we attempt to negotiate trade deals and sell off / weaken our hand to do what we can to get good deals with the market big boys (USA, China, Japan, and yes, the EU). Brexit doesn't end when we leave, it only just starts. And the world will continue laughing at us. Note how countries like Italy who polled anti-EU before the referendum are now more pro-EU having seen what happens when you try to go it alone. And all because people wanted 'sovereignity' in a globalised world and didn't like seeing 'foreigners' in their town. Pathetic. And it's a stupid decision that will cost jobs and money.

I'm with you 100% Nuggets!

At the end this whole sorry affair the only ones who are going to be even remotely happy about the outcome are the far right of the Tory party.Those who voted for Brexit won't get the result they were "sold" and the rest of us will continue to pay the cost (I say that working in a business which has largely been on "hold" since May 2016 and is unlikely to improve in the foreseeable future).

 

[stretchyboy]

I totally agree it's not the EU's fault. And, even though i've voted Conservative for most of my adult life, this government are a complete and utter shambles.

Corbyn would probably have got the deal done quicker, but that's because he'd probably have accepted everything the EU would offer to us.

But, i will leave this debate and watch from the outside, as to be totally honest, i haven't got a scooby what is going on.

 

[Nuggets]

I voted Leave because I want the British Parliament to be Sovereign over all of the laws that govern us .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/

In brief, the 'laws' that the EU make either relate to trade or concerning the EU itself. And most of those are laws that are not even applicable in the UK because most of the laws naturally apply to the other 27 member states.

 

[johnnywarksmoustache]

You cannot blame the EU for Britain opting to leave the trading bloc, why on earth would they give us a good deal? They are under no obligation, particularly if other countries see us getting reasonable terms, they'll then demand the same. And the EU certainly cannot be blamed for this government's shambolic negotiations, lack of a coherent plan going forwards, and how senior Tories continue to move the goalposts after a deal has been agreed.

We are a net contributor to this rotten organisation and we pay £15bn a year for our membership (the 3rd largest I believe) and we buy more stuff from them than they do from us so they have a hell of a problem when we do leave! I suggest you stop being so bloody defeatist I know you are a Townie like me and it comes naturally!

 

[Nuggets]

But, i will leave this debate and watch from the outside, as to be totally honest, i haven't got a scooby what is going on.

Precisely why there should not have been a national referendum on EU membership.

Not meant as a dig, but in my opinion - proof that to many people, they just don't care enough about politics and the details of the EU to make an informed, reasoned decision.

 

[canary-dave]

Then why did you both vote for Brexit?

I voted leave so that our laws were made by us not some know nothing Brussels beaurocrat

We need a different government for that to work but May is supposedly standing down

Hoo bloody ray

 

[Nuggets]

We are a net contributor to this rotten organisation and we pay £15bn a year for our membership (the 3rd largest I believe) and we buy more stuff from them than they do from us so they have a hell of a problem when we do leave! I suggest you stop being so bloody defeatist I know you are a Townie like me and it comes naturally!

Their 27 economies are bigger than ours. They'll be laughing when they up the tariffs on our deals and the price of our products and standards of living increase. I have a feeling that the EU will do just fine, particularly as all their trade deals are in place and we've only just wrapped up a trade deal with the Faroe Islands after three years. Get braced for rising prices gents, we'll be the ones paying for it!

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

We're English....so, whatever happens, we'll put the kettle on, have a cuppa with a few custard creams, and, like we always do, we'll just get on with our daily lives, shrug our shoulders and have a little moan and a tut - we'll deal with whatever the EU want to throw at us in our own style.

Sad that people vote on this kind of basis.

My business has been massively affected by this, I was working with technologists across Europe and they don't come to London anymore and I lost a £70,000 contract to a Dutch company, because all things being even dealing with a British company was too risky, that was the feedback I got off the record.

Unfortunately there are very real consequences.

 

[Scowey]

I voted Leave because I want the British Parliament to be Sovereign over all of the laws that govern us .

I voted leave so that our laws were made by us not some know nothing Brussels beaurocrat

Which specific laws are these? Genuine question.. I don't claim to be an expert, but what I do know is that the vast majority of our laws that are in line with the EU are for the greater good (Human Rights, sustainable agriculture etc.)

For what it's worth, I was torn at the referendum but decided that the whole argument of "Take back control" was a load of Bollocks as realistically even if we do have a load of EU Politicians in Brussels telling what we should do, they will certainly do a better job than any of the useless tw@ts in Westminster.. I think the past 2 years have proven that to be completely true as those in Westminster couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery

Get rid of that useless incompetent excuse of a PM. Even the not quite as useless BJ would do a better job than that twat we have "leading " us

Boris is an absolute stain on British politics and goes missing in the biggest moments, He ran away from every job he's had in the cabinet when the going got even the slightest uncomfortable as it's clear he (like the parasite Farage) is perhaps the most self serving politician who's primary focus is his own ambition and self preservation. We shouldn't be allowing him any air time whatsoever as he has no intent or ability to back anything up that he spouts.

 

[johnnywarksmoustache]

Control of our own laws, money and borders

I thought that was bloody obvious!

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

Control of our own laws, money and borders

I thought that was bloody obvious!

I think he is asking which European laws you are unhappy with that are going to be different after Brexit. Will it be the weaker tax haven laws, the reduction in standards of food and consumer goods or the removal of human rights checks?

I've never heard this question get a reasoned and informed response, perhaps you can be the first.

 

[Scowey]

Control of our own laws, money and borders

I thought that was bloody obvious!

Like Hampy said, I am genuinely intrigued by which specific laws these are. We've all heard that statement... Which seems to be an involuntary reflex for some people when asked about Brexit.

From my understanding there are only around 15 laws(?) that were "imposed" on Great Britain and that we would likely scrap, and these relate to things like Human rights (working and labour procedures) and tighter regulation for banks. There are obviously some others which I accept might frustrate people but I'm yet to hear them other than throwaway comments about the "EU is not letting the vacuum cleaners be powerful enough" etc.

 

[Yorkiegit26]

Like Hampy said, I am genuinely intrigued by which specific laws these are. We've all heard that statement... Which seems to be an involuntary reflex for some people when asked about Brexit.

From my understanding there are only around 15 laws(?) that were "imposed" on Great Britain and that we would likely scrap, and these relate to things like Human rights (working and labour procedures) and tighter regulation for banks. There are obviously some others which I accept might frustrate people but I'm yet to hear them other than throwaway comments about the "EU is not letting the vacuum cleaners be powerful enough" etc.

Errr freedom to control our borders and having a say about how many immigrants can come in--- that's one, pretty ****ing big one too

 

[Bigalreigned]

Errr freedom to control our borders and having a say about how many immigrants can come in--- that's one, pretty ****ing big one too

And do you think the deal we’ll end up with will give us back that control?

 

[Scowey]

Errr freedom to control our borders and having a say about how many immigrants can come in--- that's one, pretty ****ing big one too

You mean the measures to control immigration that we already have?

We have always been able to limit the amount of immigration from outside the EU. But you may be shocked to hear that immigration from within the EU is negligible and makes up a very small percentage of the overall immigration numbers.

So the level of immigration has been under the control of the British government for years.. Nothing is going to change in the grand scheme of things as those who we potentially put more barriers up make up such a small number anyway.

 

[Yorkiegit26]

But you may be shocked to hear that immigration from within the EU is negligible and makes up a very small percentage of the overall immigration numbers.

Before any talks of referendums and such we had such a high number of immigrants arrive on this shore that a university (cant remember which one) asked the immigration authorities under the freedom of information act how many immigrants had arrived in the previous year, their answer which was very vague said just over a million
the same university then contacted the tax department and asked how many immigrants had applied for a national insurance number during the same period and the answer was over 3 million

even the bloody government had no idea how many were actually here so how you can say that the numbers were negligible then is beyond me, or maybe you knew something than the whole government apparatus didn't know

That's why we needed control

 

[johnnywarksmoustache]

You mean the measures to control immigration that we already have?

We have always been able to limit the amount of immigration from outside the EU. But you may be shocked to hear that immigration from within the EU is negligible and makes up a very small percentage of the overall immigration numbers.

So the level of immigration has been under the control of the British government for years.. Nothing is going to change in the grand scheme of things as those who we potentially put more barriers up make up such a small number anyway.

Try telling that to the inhabitants of places like Boston, Peterborough and other down at heal Towns in the North and Midlands that have been flooded with EU nationals since Blair opened the doors in 2004!