Off Topic So, what now?

[BCFCRob]

It's an open border now isn't it?

Yes exactly. So anyone who can get into Europe (be that from Ireland or Greece or Slovakia), can get into the UK openly without checks, whether we want them or not. So in theory, a lot of illegal immigration. It's just a fact of no deal, hence why I was interested to hear opinions.

It's not meant as a dig, but even Brexiteers are accepting this truth now. So I'm interested to hear people's views. Is that a price worth paying for no deal?

 

[wizered]

Might sound a daft question and not trying to revive old discussion but if Eire and the EU is such a magnificent, successful system and the UK is destined for rack and ruin why would 500m plus people be determined to get in here?

 

[BCFCRob]

Might sound a daft question and not trying to revive old discussion but if Eire and the EU is such a magnificent, successful system and the UK is destined for rack and ruin why would 500m plus people be determined to get in here?

Well that's not really the point in all honesty, people want to illegally change countries all the time. What I was getting at is that we were promised control of immigration and our borders as part of no deal. But we all know that no deal in reality actually makes that worse as we can't track anyone coming in (because of that open border). Which is why I was interested as to how Brexiteers reconcile that, and whether they consider it worth it. If so, that's fair enough, it's just an observation.

A good example might be refugees. You might want less refugees to be able to get here. But if Germany decides to accept 10,000, and gives them EU passports (it's not really that simple but just for this argument I'll leave it), what is stopping them coming into the UK? There's nothing.

 

[Sapphire]

Whichever way your preference, its worth keeping an eye on the petition to Government.
'Revoke article 50 and remain in the EU'

It's galloping so fast the site cannot keep up and constantly freezes.
Wont make any difference unless it gets well into double million figures. But it tells the Government to be aware that's there is a different view by the public.

 

[BCFCRob]

Whichever way your preference, its worth keeping an eye on the petition to Government.
'Revoke article 50 and remain in the EU'

It's galloping so fast the site cannot keep up and constantly freezes.
Wont make any difference unless it gets well into double million figures. But it tells the Government to be aware that's there is a different view by the public.

The overall majority in here is quite overwhelmingly pro-leave to be honest mate but I agree. The speed at which that petition has progressed is pretty incredible.

 

[Sapphire]

I believe I'm correct. It's difficult to read, but the Bristol West constituency has already voted 20 odd percent in favour of the petition

 

[johngalleyfan2]

But many of us realised that Britain as one the four or five 'cash cows'

we are currently the 2nd or 3rd of the top three 4th is billions behind, and those that are behind gets massive chunks back we get some !

It seems an anathemas that Mrs May can have three votes to bully her motion through Parliament

very easy to look at it that way as a bullying way... but if you think about it anything brought in changed is all going to be in the same direction the biggest enigma is corboliks ..
he could propose a deal, and come the vote … he would be a naye ...he would and as history for him has exposed he is self centred and wishes his WILL to be imposed on the result … "I went there and I told them" … funny thing if it meant anything, then the three main EU OFFICERS would be selling its praises .. "Jermy Corboliks has a plan and it is brilliant, he ought to be in charge we should deal with him" …. uuuuuuuumm silence, he seems to be only one interested in what he had to say.
In one way that is sad because he will probably take umbrage and strengthen his resolve to "get one over on TM, which he has not in the last, 100 PMQ's "

 

[johngalleyfan2]

Sapphire said: ↑
Whichever way your preference, its worth keeping an eye on the petition to Government.
'Revoke article 50 and remain in the EU'

It's galloping so fast the site cannot keep up and constantly freezes.
Wont make any difference unless it gets well into double million figures. But it tells the Government to be aware that's there is a different view by the public.

as I said in another post needs to get past 17m, and by a great deal more... maybe 19m to mean anything.... regarded in some circles as sour grapes!
have you seen the crowds outside parliament? well 99.2% are people who voted to remain … they lost and are poor losers ….
imagine:-
BALLOT /( SAME AS A VOTE in a way ) ......building say a road from a to b, choice is do we knock down that grade 1 listed building at point Z or do WE knock down that grade 1 listed building at Y?
1010 vote Z and 1012 vote Y 970 dint bother to vote, you can bet your bottom dollar the Z's will be well p****** or most of them and want recounts re votes alternatives its human nature.....
in the didn't vote will be peeps that wanted Z BULL DOZED and they will be the ones really peeved at not casting their vote .
a few years ago there was a vote council or some other GE I didn't vote, it was recounts and recounts ant difference was had me and the wife voted it would have been the other way .. OK LIKELY OTHER PEEPS COULD HAVE VOTED LIKE ME OR INDEED FOR THE WINNER BUT DIDNT .. BUT I will never forget it …

 

[Sapphire]

It was an observation, not a point of view. At the moment it's gathered around 4.5 million votes and rising fast. That's about twelve percent of the total of those who voted in the referendum

 

[BCFCRob]

All of the evidence suggests remain would win a second referendum, every polling service is saying so at this point. Obviously you have to take it with a pinch of salt but there's definitely been some sort of shift since the vote.

 

[wizered]

We've had the referendum remain lost, the majority have spoken with the biggest responce ever in people numbers participating and won, the MP's voted in parliament by a huge majority to implement the vote and make it law and won, the general election of 2017 was held and 80% 0f the people voted for parties that had leave in their manifesto and won, now people are trying to deprive us of our democratic rights by having a stay at home petition which anybody in the world are rumoured to be participating in or pushing for a 2nd vote which was not offered at the time of the vote and was just an after thought, just because they lost.

It stinks, it's wrong and against every principle of democracy and freedom developed through a parliamentary system a 1000 years old, the establishment is at work again and the people advocating this disgusting ruse should be ashamed of themselves, if it succeeds the ramafications will be very severe.

 

[BCFCRob]

We've had the referendum remain lost, the majority have spoken with the biggest responce ever in people numbers participating and won

Sorry wiz but this is simply not true.

It stinks, it's wrong and against every principle of democracy

Asking the people what they want again.... is against democracy?

Yes exactly. So anyone who can get into Europe (be that from Ireland or Greece or Slovakia), can get into the UK openly without checks, whether we want them or not. So in theory, a lot of illegal immigration. It's just a fact of no deal, hence why I was interested to hear opinions.

It's not meant as a dig, but even Brexiteers are accepting this truth now. So I'm interested to hear people's views. Is that a price worth paying for no deal?

I notice no one has answered this.... Just like no one was able to tell us any of the laws imposed from the EU that they dislike...

 

[wizered]

'Whatever happened to that annoying little thing called democracy? On a 72 per cent turnout, 17,410,742 people voted Leave — the biggest vote in British history for anything.
In 1992, John Major was re-elected with the largest ever total — 14 million votes and 42 per cent of the vote — compared with Brexit’s 52 per cent. In 1997, Tony Blair won 13.5 million votes and 43 per cent of the vote.

You didn’t hear the usual suspects say, “Not in my name,” then — because they thought the right man won.'

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/...sh-vote-in-history-for-anything-a3281496.html

Even if you were right on this individual point I notice you didn't deny the other two.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

Yes exactly. So anyone who can get into Europe (be that from Ireland or Greece or Slovakia), can get into the UK openly without checks, whether we want them or not. So in theory, a lot of illegal immigration. It's just a fact of no deal, hence why I was interested to hear opinions.

It's not meant as a dig, but even Brexiteers are accepting this truth now. So I'm interested to hear people's views. Is that a price worth paying for no deal?

So if we remain, it will be the same, as is? To the remainers, why is this an issue? The fact is, MOST leavers still want to leave...
IMO, if there is another peoples vote, Remain shouldn't even be on the table......we did that!!

 

[BCFCRob]

'Whatever happened to that annoying little thing called democracy? On a 72 per cent turnout, 17,410,742 people voted Leave — the biggest vote in British history for anything.
In 1992, John Major was re-elected with the largest ever total — 14 million votes and 42 per cent of the vote — compared with Brexit’s 52 per cent. In 1997, Tony Blair won 13.5 million votes and 43 per cent of the vote.

You didn’t hear the usual suspects say, “Not in my name,” then — because they thought the right man won.'

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/...sh-vote-in-history-for-anything-a3281496.html

Even if you were right on this individual point I notice you didn't deny the other two.

Not sure which 2 you are referring to but happy to answer? I think they were these 2 but correct me if I'm wrong:

80% of people voted for parties who backed leaving - Very true, but let's not pretend that this is an indication of leaving. I voted labour, but I'm remain. It's only because of our politics meaning smaller parties always do crap.

'Petition which anybody in the world are rumoured to be participating in' - These rumours are only coming from Brexiteers. While not foolproof, it's a very reliable petition. 96% of the votes have come from the UK, for a vote to be counted it has to be cross-checked with the electoral roll and it filters out duplicate email addresses.

To be fair I wouldn't focus too much on the petition anyway. I do think it's reliable and it's great numbers but it's only a petition. I am aware that it proves feck all so I'm not going to sit and pretend it really means anything.

 

[Cliftonville]

Might sound a daft question and not trying to revive old discussion but if Eire and the EU is such a magnificent, successful system and the UK is destined for rack and ruin why would 500m plus people be determined to get in here?

It has been asked before. And his latest answer makes little sense.

The Republic and the UK are part of a common travel area separate to the EU. That area can be altered to include just the Republic and Northern Ireland. The Republic as point of access for this enormous migration can also alter the CTA. The UK itself can implement a tired visa system for EU nationals and limits to the number of visas issued.

 

[wizered]

Not sure which 2 you are referring to but happy to answer? I think they were these 2 but correct me if I'm wrong:

80% of people voted for parties who backed leaving - Very true, but let's not pretend that this is an indication of leaving. I voted labour, but I'm remain. It's only because of our politics meaning smaller parties always do crap.

'Petition which anybody in the world are rumoured to be participating in' - These rumours are only coming from Brexiteers. While not foolproof, it's a very reliable petition. 96% of the votes have come from the UK, for a vote to be counted it has to be cross-checked with the electoral roll and it filters out duplicate email addresses.

To be fair I wouldn't focus too much on the petition anyway. I do think it's reliable and it's great numbers but it's only a petition. I am aware that it proves feck all so I'm not going to sit and pretend it really means anything.

Point 2 was the parliamentary vote or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Referendum_Act_2015 - MPs voted by 544 to 53

 

[BCFCRob]

It has been asked before. And his latest answer makes little sense.

The Republic and the UK are part of a common travel area separate to the EU. That area can be altered to include just the Republic and Northern Ireland. The Republic as point of access for this enormous migration can also alter the CTA. The UK itself can implement a tired visa system for EU nationals and limits to the number of visas issued.

Which would mean treating Northern Ireland differently from Great Britain, and create a border (of sorts) in the Irish Sea. Ruled out by all parties.

Saying that my answer makes little sense when your previous solutions have included 'unspecified technology' is fantastic. I find it odd that no politician in the land can even get close to a solution and yet you have it planned so easily.

No deal does not take back control of our borders. It actually achieves worse than what we have now. Fact.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

All of the evidence suggests remain would win a second referendum, every polling service is saying so at this point. Obviously you have to take it with a pinch of salt but there's definitely been some sort of shift since the vote.

To be fair Rob, everyone thought Remain would win the first one - which may have prompted potential Remainers not to bother voting.
As I’ve said before, I don’t know many Brexiteers personally in ‘real life’ and that’s probably as a result of my own and Mrs R&Ws careers (Financial Services and Teaching). Of those approx 20 that I DO know, 2 of them openly admitted that their vote was a ‘protest’ and they would vote Remain if there were to be another referendum.
I also know 2 people who have switched the other way around - but that’s 2 out of several hundred personal acquaintances I know who voted Remain.
Not sure if this means anything at all - other than not many people are changing their minds.
I think that IF there is another referendum, the biggest affect would be as a result of new young people becoming eligible to vote and older voters having died.
Essentially though, we still don’t know what Brexit looks like, until May’s deal is approved.

 

[Cliftonville]

Which would mean treating Northern Ireland differently from Great Britain, and create a border (of sorts) in the Irish Sea. Ruled out by all parties.

Saying that my answer makes little sense when your previous solutions have included 'unspecified technology' is fantastic. I find it odd that no politician in the land can even get close to a solution and yet you have it planned so easily.

No deal does not take back control of our borders. It actually achieves worse than what we have now. Fact.

Your first line is incorrect. The common travel area would still exist for the Republic and the UK. No border in the sea would be needed. Legislation to the CTA would have to alter and this would relate to the relationship of the Republic to Northern Ireland as point of entry. You believe millions will flood into the Republic seeking to gain access to the UK = Immigration controls could be applied at the point of entry which is the Republic.

Your second paragraph is disingenuous. I made reference to specified suggestions from political parties. I made no plans and to suggest I did is absurd and disrespectful - A lie.

Your last line is an opinion not a fact. Post Brexit the UK could have a visa system in place for EU passport holders. That is additional control and its in the Government white paper that was revealed end of last year. A fact.