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Off Topic How Are You Celebrating Brexit Day ?

Discussion in 'Charlton' started by Bitter & Malicious, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him Forum Moderator

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    Some goal-post moving from the Prime Minister now. What a surprise.
    First she wasn't going to accept a delay.
    Now she isn't going to accept a delay beyond 30th June.
    By the middle of June it will be something different again.
     
    #4181
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  2. Ken Shabby

    Ken Shabby Well-Known Member

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    Same old. She had two years to sort this out, and since december she' has in her hand a piece of paper' with a deal most of parliament and the majority of the electorate don't want.
    She could have tried to meet Labour and the LibDems to negotiate a Brexit they all agreed on.
    But she only wants her deal, and her pistol to the head is a No Deal Brexit, which is actually what the ERG and DUP want.
    Sounds like she won't be around much longer as prime Minister - her place as the worst ever is pretty much assured though.
     
    #4182
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  3. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

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    The odds shift to the PM's Withdrawal Agreement going through. Incredible. As though Monty Python's Black Knight has won.
     
    #4183
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  4. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him Forum Moderator

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    From the BBC website;

    In her statement, Mrs May said: "Of this I am absolutely sure. You, the public, have had enough.

    "You are tired of the infighting, tired of the political games and the arcane procedural rows, tired of MPs talking about nothing else but Brexit when you have real concerns about our children's schools, our National Health Service, knife crime.

    "You want this stage of the Brexit process to be over and done with. I agree. I am on your side."

    The PM said it was "now time for MPs to decide" whether they wanted to leave with her deal, no deal or whether they chose not to leave at all - the latter, she warned, could cause "irreparable damage to public trust" in politicians.

    "So far Parliament has done everything possible to avoid making a choice," said Mrs May. "All MPs have been willing to say is what they do not want."

    I'll give the PM credit for her determination to get the job done and not walking away like the coward Cameron.
    The highlighted parts of her statement sum the situation up perfectly for me.

    Parliament sees nothing but its own importance. The British people are simply there to pay for its extravagance and ridiculous habits.
    If it had any shame at all it would abandon all the 18th century wig wearing and shouty chaos that amuses the tourists, and get on with
    governing the f**king country.

    Mrs May is ready to resign, and I don't blamer her,
    To be honest, I am really beginning to wonder whether the European Commission is actually a preferable option to the Westminster Parliament freak show when it comes to running the UK.

    If Brexit never happerns I won't be quite as annoyed as I thought I would be.
    Perhaps it's better to be ruled by a couple of dozen faceless, unelected Eurocrats than by 600 gibbering monkeys in a Victorian Gothic folly.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  5. DickPlumb

    DickPlumb Well-Known Member

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    You haven’t flip flopped have you @lardiman ?
     
    #4185
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  6. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

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    Mrs May has delayed the debate whenever possible, and denied MP's the opportunity for indicative votes, and so has helped to create the situation she now complains abahrt.
     
    #4186
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  7. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him Forum Moderator

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    You know what, I think I have.
    This country is no longer capable of governing itself.
    Parliament no longer functions, a credible government can no longer be elected.

    Bugger Brexit.
    I don't even see the point in hanging on to the Pound. We might as well adopt the Euro.
     
    #4187
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  8. deleted.....

    deleted..... Well-Known Member

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    We may as well shut down the Commonwealth, other than a half hearted games every four years I see absolutely no point in it.
     
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  9. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

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    Keeps the Queen happy.
     
    #4189
  10. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him Forum Moderator

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    The Commonwealth and the Queen are just for the tourists these days.
    Now in my opinion Westminster is only for the tourists too.

    Even if we get Brexit the Country will not be allowed to prosper. The chances offered by our independence from the EU will be squandered by one stupid Westminster Government or another.
    And chances are now we won't get Brexit anyway, just a version of the 'Norway option' - which means remaining part of everything the EU does and giving them as much money as we always used to. In orther words, remaining part of the EU in everything but name.

    Our politicians have failed us.
    Common people like you and me will suffer because of it, as extremism takes over.
    I don't want to see more good people like Jo Cox murdered, but that's the path we are on now.

    This Country has serious problems to deal with;
    • Peace in Northern Ireland is under grave threat, with no regional government there for two years now.
    • The NHS is failing.
    • Education is not fit for purpose - unless you can pay big fees.
    • Social services and the Police cut to the bone.
    • No affordable housing.
    • Gang culture, drug running and knife violence are out of control.
    • Transport networks are creaking.
    This Brexit insanity has gone on for far too long already.
    The politicians are fiddling while Britain burns.
     
    #4190
  11. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

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    Mrs May's performance last night seems to have fanned the flames of rage. We are an angry nation now.
     
    #4191
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  12. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

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    The scale of death threats against remoaner MP's has reached the stage that Anna Soubry is unable to go home this weekend on police advice. This should worry every civilised person whatever their views, but judging by the phone-ins on LBC there are plenty of hard liners who condone it, blaming the politicians themselves.
     
    #4192
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  13. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him Forum Moderator

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    Yet of course there is nothing provocative or inflammatory about talk of what will happen if the UK "crashes out" of the EU with no deal.
    Secret plans by the MOD. Rumours of food riots at supermarkets. No medicines. Power cuts. Martial law. A state of emergency.
    Vulnerable people being terrorised into believing that their lives will be over the day this country leaves the EU.
    Hour after hour of it on the BBC news.

    Project Fear being whipped up to ever more hysterical levels by prominent 'intellectual' commentators who then imply (or say straight out) that the only way to avoid the coming Apocalypse is for Britain to revoke article 50 and remain a full member of the European Union.

    Since 2016 a huge swathe of the London / South East based Elite and the Establishment have shown nothing but contempt for people they consider to be their inferiors. Ignorant Northerners. Racists. White working class scum - the great unwashed who dared to vote Leave.
    A lot of people are used to being treated that way. It's been going on for generations.
    But taking away their right to vote - which is what reversing the outcome of the 2016 referendum amounts to - is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

    You cannot treat millions of people like dirt forever and expect them to just suck it up.
    The forgotten people of this Country used the ballot box to express how strongly they felt, but now they are told by their 'betters' that their votes don't count.
    As far as some of them are concerned, that's a green light to express their strength of feeling in more direct ways.
    Right or wrong, that's the way it is now.
     
    #4193
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  14. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

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    Wow.
     
    #4194
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  15. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him Forum Moderator

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    I'm quite prepared to believe many 'Leave' voters made that choice as a protest vote - many people living outside the prosperous South East, communities that have been largely abandoned by recent governments. People who believe (rightly or wrongly) that EU membership has done nothing for them or their kin, and is a symbol of the way the wealthy, self-serving establishment wants things to be in Britain.

    But very few politicians or experts seem to acknowledge the protest element of the 'Leave' vote.
    The people who are tired of their towns and regions being neglected and ignored, seemingly always second place behind London and the home counties. People who probably feel that even a lifetime of voting in General Elections has been little more than a waste of time.
    2016 was a very rare opportunity for them to cast a vote against the distant and uncaring Establishment as represented by the oh-so-smooth and shiny 'Dave' Cameron.

    Now an army of doom-mongering liberal intellectuals has come out of the woodwork to take their democratic victory away from them.
    An army given hours of free airtime day-in, day-out by the ultra-remain BBC.
    Project Fear has discouraged some moderate leavers, frightening many vulnerable folk into changing their minds. But Project Fear has also even further alienated the harder line 'Leave' voters, driving some extremists away from the democratic process altogether by preaching that the 2016 referendum is not valid.

    If the 2016 referendum result is reversed by Parliament, why should anybody - even the vast majority of peace loving, law abiding people - have any respect for democracy or our politicians in the future?
     
    #4195
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  16. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

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    Our electoral system doesn't get the government you want, just enables you to get rid of a government you don't want.
     
    #4196
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  17. deleted.....

    deleted..... Well-Known Member

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    I think the Brexit issue shows us what would happen if the UK introduced proportional representation, all Parliamentary votes would end up like the Brexit votes and the Government in the UK could not govern. At most General Elections the winning Party (Labour or Tories) normally gets around 40 to 45% of the votes so they would need the support of the third party (Libs/SNP/UKIP) to enact any sort of manifesto, if the Tories/Lib Dems collaboration is anything to go by then 20% ish of the junior Party's manifesto would become Government Policy.

    I understand that 'First Past the Post' is not popular but with PR (as we have seen with Brexit) the Country's Government will end up like Italy's and the UK would suffer as a result.
     
    #4197
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  18. lardiman

    lardiman We can rebuild him Forum Moderator

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    I agree that proportional representation would not work as the way to select MP's for the House of Commons.

    But PR could (and should in my opinion) be used to elect a second chamber. A replacement for the House of Lords.
    The roll of the second chamber should remain largely as it is now, and there should be absolutely no doubt that the Commons remains the only chamber with the power to make new law.

    But it seems this kind of reform is never going to happen.
    I assume it's because MP's don't want their authority diluted in any way. Having the Lords as an unelected chamber with most of its members chosen by the Commons itself (rather than by the people, heaven forbid) is very convenient for them.

    This is another example of Members of Parliament regarding the power of democracy as something that belongs only to them. Something to be jealously guarded and never shared.
    Any other kind of democratic process such as a referendum or a PR second chamber is not legitimate in their eyes - only a threat to their absolute authority and privilege.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  19. deleted.....

    deleted..... Well-Known Member

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    The HoL is also a very handy nest egg (or retirement fund) for MP's, once they have finished in the HoC they move up to the HoL as a well paid but lightly worked second House. How many other businesses work on the basis of paying their staff a minimum of £300 per day (@£6,000 per month) (@£75,000 per annum) for just signing in every day? Then (on top) they are offered subsidised food & drink and travel expenses!
     
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  20. ForestHillBilly

    ForestHillBilly Well-Known Member

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    Nick Clegg was easily stitched up by Dodgy Dave when he tried to introduce PR. Nobody understood the proposal, but it was not PR.
     
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