Off Topic The Politics Thread

[bobmid]

Simple thing ellers, you've obviously got the evidence to back up you're accusation. Please share otherwise retract it. It may make you look silly but nobody is bothered. I though am bothered about being called a cyber bully, as in my opinion and that of many parents up and down the country, it's a very serious matter.

 

[bobmid]

So feel free to share it and condemn me to not606 exclusion. Man up and back up you're words

 

[Stroller]

All the talk from some on here of May having failed to deliver on Brexit because she is a Remainer at heart is wholly wrong in my view. Where she went wrong is in pursuing the hardest of hard Brexits and refusing to consider a compromise that would have given something to the 48%. Had she done so - instead of pandering to the ERG loons - she would have had a deal by now. The reason she didn't, of course, was because she put the preservation of the Tory party before the best interests of the country.

Oh, and she's ****ing useless.

 

[RichardRanger]

I will give way on this one then, but having spoken to a good friend who is a corporate /business lawyer he says although maybe this is the case that there are no visible mechanisms in place, the wording and way things are structured within EU legislation it is in his very well educated opinion that eventually it is the EU’s intention to remove sovereignty from all member states little by little until it is too late to do anything about it and for the EU to become the all powerful ruling body in Europe, and unfortunately for the EU in a fit of pique or rage Guy Verhofstadt let the cat out of the bag in the clip posted by I believe Kiwi.
So again apologies for not replying sooner, and I will bow down on this one for the moment, but will also remain a firm believer that the EU has many ulterior motives and also that they must in order to keep their future plans on track they must in the eyes of the current remaining 27 states and all future members seek to make an example of the U.K. solely to prevent any future countries trying to exit.
Also it is pretty clear in the Lisbon treaty’s wording that the council would like to see all member states eventually adopt Schengen and the Euro including those countries that have the “right “ not too, this goes back to my earlier comments on this thread, the EU is by nature a dangerous animal and will do everything in its power legally and otherwise to achieve this.

It's there in clear light of day in the Lisbon Treaty what the EU's end game is - "Ever Closer Union".

 

[ELLERS]

It's there in clear light of day in the Lisbon Treaty what the EU's end game is - "Ever Closer Union".

It has always been their game. It won't work for them because you are dealing with many different countries that all have their own identity and history. The EU is trying to create a new super state (like an MK Dons) Something that is not real and not respected. The UK has always been a thorn in its side and has always been Eurosceptic. Other than our money they would be better off without us. It should have stayed as it was, a trading block.

 

[Stroller]

May was just asked at PMQs whether she was the last person standing who thought that her disastrous cuts to police numbers as Home Secretary had no contributory effect to the rise in knife crime and violent crime in general. She didn't deny the impact this time and mumbled something about making 'difficult decisions'. I suppose this is the closest we are going to get to her admitting she was wrong at the time and has been lying about the consequences of her decision ever since. She has blood on her hands.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Not enough for me Ellers, doesn’t show that Corbyn has a ‘problem with jews’....please try harder (but you won’t of course)

Stainsey, I said let you have the case against Corbyn on antisemitism. As I have said, Corbyn's antisemitism does not involve overt acts like burning down synagogues. It's aggression and threats and turning a blind eye carried out by his "supporters", sometimes close supporters. A fish rots from the head down, and it's Corbyn's failure to act against racist threats against Jewish people (particularly Jewish MP's) that is seen as implicit approval.

This recent BBC post is a good summary of the case against Corbyn:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45030552

To summarise:

1. Jewish Voice for Labour said in the past 10 months, 453 cases of antisemitism have been investigated in the Labour Party, yet close Corbyn ally Chris Williamson said Labour had been over apologetic. Corbyn was reluctant to remove Williamson until put under pressure by the likes of Tom Watson.

2. Luciana Berger has, in the words of Watson, been bullied out of the party by racist thugs. Corbyn did nothing. Berger needed a police escort when she attended the Labour Conference in 2018. Corbyn did nothing.

3. Corbyn refused to comply with the Holocaust Remembrance Guidelines, so watering down the definition of antisemitism

4. Corbyn accused British Zionists of "no sense of English Irony."

5. In 2014, Corbyn honoured the terrorists that tortured and murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics.

6.Corbyn sent a supportive message to the artist responsible for an obviously antisemitic mural in 2012

7. Corbyn ordered disciplinary action against Jewish MP Margaret Hodge when she claimed he was antisemitic, rather than trying to understand her complaint. The action was later quietly dropped.

Watson acknowledges the antisemitism in the Labour Party. Even Mcdonnell does. Corbyn ordered a review by an insider, Shami Chakrabarti, who delivered what is widely seen as a whitewash and was rewarded with a seat in the House of Lords.

 

[Stroller]

Stainsey, I said let you have the case against Corbyn on antisemitism. As I have said, Corbyn's antisemitism does not involve overt acts like burning down synagogues. It's aggression and threats and turning a blind eye carried out by his "supporters", sometimes close supporters. A fish rots from the head down, and it's Corbyn's failure to act against racist threats against Jewish people (particularly Jewish MP's) that is seen as implicit approval.

This recent BBC post is a good summary of the case against Corbyn:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45030552

To summarise:

1. Jewish Voice for Labour said in the past 10 months, 453 cases of antisemitism have been investigated in the Labour Party, yet close Corbyn ally Chris Williamson said Labour had been over apologetic. Corbyn was reluctant to remove Williamson until put under pressure by the likes of Tom Watson.

2. Luciana Berger has, in the words of Watson, been bullied out of the party by racist thugs. Corbyn did nothing. Berger needed a police escort when she attended the Labour Conference in 2018. Corbyn did nothing.

3. Corbyn refused to comply with the Holocaust Remembrance Guidelines, so watering down the definition of antisemitism

4. Corbyn accused British Zionists of "no sense of English Irony."

5. In 2014, Corbyn honoured the terrorists that tortured and murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics.

6.Corbyn sent a supportive message to the artist responsible for an obviously antisemitic mural in 2012

7. Corbyn ordered disciplinary action against Jewish MP Margaret Hodge when she claimed he was antisemitic, rather than trying to understand her complaint. The action was later quietly dropped.

Watson acknowledges the antisemitism in the Labour Party. Even Mcdonnell does. Corbyn ordered a review by an insider, Shami Chakrabarti, who delivered what is widely seen as a whitewash and was rewarded with a seat in the House of Lords.

Whilst all of this demonstrates poor judgment and a failure to effectively deal with anti-Semitism in Labour, it doesn't prove that Corbyn himself is an anti-Semite, or to use Ellers's coy euphemism, that he 'has a problem with Jews'. The Tory party has been widely accused of Islamophobia, does the fact that May doesn't acknowledge this make her an Islamophobe or perhaps 'have a problem with Muslims'?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47454993

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Whilst all of this demonstrates poor judgment and a failure to effectively deal with anti-Semitism in Labour, it doesn't prove that Corbyn himself is an anti-Semite, or to use Ellers's coy euphemism, that he 'has a problem with Jews'. The Tory party has been widely accused of Islamophobia, does the fact that May doesn't acknowledge this make her an Islamophobe or perhaps 'have a problem with Muslims'?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47454993

Racism should be stamped on where ever it is found, but Corbyn's personal record is shameful

 

[ELLERS]

She has blood on her hands.

That's a bit harsh Stroller. She doesn't go out stabbing people. Plenty of knife crimes under Labour, plenty of knife crimes not reported.
The majority of knife crime is gang related. She doesn't create those gangs. Plenty of gangs under Labour.
I grew up in a rough area where a school friend was attacked by a gang and stabbed to death. Great kid who was only walking home from Cadets. No matter how many police you have out there it comes down to families, morales and respect. These knife killers have none of these. More police won't change it, especially when prison is not a real deterrent.

 

[bobmid]

Whilst all of this demonstrates poor judgment and a failure to effectively deal with anti-Semitism in Labour, it doesn't prove that Corbyn himself is an anti-Semite, or to use Ellers's coy euphemism, that he 'has a problem with Jews'. The Tory party has been widely accused of Islamophobia, does the fact that May doesn't acknowledge this make her an Islamophobe or perhaps 'have a problem with Muslims'?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47454993

Very well said strolls

 

[ELLERS]

Whilst all of this demonstrates poor judgment and a failure to effectively deal with anti-Semitism in Labour, it doesn't prove that Corbyn himself is an anti-Semite, or to use Ellers's coy euphemism, that he 'has a problem with Jews'. The Tory party has been widely accused of Islamophobia, does the fact that May doesn't acknowledge this make her an Islamophobe or perhaps 'have a problem with Muslims'?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47454993

Stroller stop trying to change what we are talking about. You are now trying to shift the attention away from Corbyn to the tories... stick to Corbyn as he is the one in question. funny I always seem to get accused of that yet everyone else doesn't?

 

[Stroller]

Stroller stop trying to change what we are talking about. You are now trying to shift the attention away from Corbyn to the tories... stick to Corbyn as he is the one in question. funny I always seem to get accused of that yet everyone else doesn't?

That's the point, you muppet. It's a stick to beat Corbyn with and divert attention away from this appalling Tory government.

 

[ELLERS]

Racism should be stamped on where ever it is found, but Corbyn's personal record is shameful

Agree Goldie, and thanks for posting that list. Corbyn will always have this hanging over him. Just look at the history of hanging out with terrorists... putting wreaths down... having dodgy pictures on the wall... having the Jewish community slate him... Labour MP's leaving over racism and anti-semitism. The list goes on and on. He is the leader and you need to ask why he hasn't sorted this?
TBH this is the last I will post on Corbyn's problems with Jews because I don't believe we can debate this. Too many people are blinded and will not accept facts.

 

[ELLERS]

That's the point, you muppet. It's a stick to beat Corbyn with and divert attention away from this appalling Tory government.

I don't need to divert attention away from the government. I have been critical of them with their Brexit dealings, especially May. I have mocked many Tory ministers and MP's like those muppets Grayling/Hammond/Grieve/Boles/Clark and so on. You on the other hand will never say anything about the inept Corbyn.. who is without doubt the weakest Labour leader in living memory. He is not a statesman and will never be PM. As May said today the CBI aren't as worried of a no deal as they are with a Corbyn government.... that says it all. he is a clown with no respect and that is not a tory thing but from within his own party.

 

[ELLERS]

Now I don't like Hammond and I know he talks a load of old rubbish at times however
John McDonnel is awful at the dispatch box. Awful! He is stuttering, looking at his notes without connecting to his speech or the house. Useless., Such a bad orators for an MP.

 

[bobmid]

I wonder how many voters the Tories will lose to that clown farages party. It's certainly interesting to see who go along with MPs.

 

[bobmid]

That's the point, you muppet. It's a stick to beat Corbyn with and divert attention away from this appalling Tory government.

That's all the liar can do mate. Full of **** and the ironic thing is , he swerved it towards Corbyn when the initial comments were about mogg and Farage. Hes a simple soul, who blatantly lies on here. You cant debate with him, unless you agree with him then it's not a debate. The bloke is a first class wum.

 

[ELLERS]

I am glad SkyNews has mentioned it... did anyone notice the amount of empty Tory seats behind Hammond while he was giving his speech? It was like a fire drill. That's not good.
The 2 main parties are split and a GE is need.

 

[bobmid]

I hope they vote on not leaving without a deal today. Cant see the UKIP band of Tories hanging around.