Off Topic Political Debate

That cannot be questioned. Hair maybe, but common sense, no.

 

The UK party system shows even more cracks tonight as within the Labour Party a new social democratic grouping was launched. Well supported, back benchers, front benchers, and peers filled a committee room to overflowing. All moderate people they show signs of wanting that party to return to the new Labour days, when the party could actually win elections. There can be little doubt that far too many people have seen, rightly or wrongly, the current leadership is taking the party far too far to the left. As I have mentioned on here before, in France the left is split into so many groupings, that it cannot put forward a single policy that appeals to a majority.
At the same time we have the Tory party out of touch with the majority of the population. The fact that a majority was lost proves that right wing policies are only popular with an ageing part of the population. The small membership that is very right wing, wants leaders that traditionally do not appeal to the majority of UK voters. Once again compare that to France, and the common view is that the right wing National Front will never come to power for several reasons that are quite complicated.
What we have seen is that the UK political system is not equipped to deal with finding consensus. Two parties that simply pass the baton from one to the other, then pass it back again, does not provide for good government over the long term. The first past the post system perpetuates this failed system, but it is stuck because neither of the two parties wish to lose power when in office, and can sit back and watch the other make a mess of things when in opposition.

 

The only chance we have of changing the voting system Frenchie is if the Labour Party needs the support of other parties to gain power. Needless to say I disagree about Labour having moved too far to the left - they have simply moved in line with the grass roots of the party, which has always been to the left of the PLP. Many of Corbyn's ideas on decentralization, renationalization of vital utilities, and changes to the finance sector are much needed and have a wide level of support in the country. But Corbyn has not been clear enough on Brexit, has made no efforts whatsoever to get any of the media onto his side, and has taken too defensive a role on the anti semitism charges. Criticism of the Israeli government is a political statement, not an anti semitic one - Israel is open to the same criticisms which can be leveled at any other country, end of story.

 

I tend to agree with you Frenchie in that the position the LP is holding now is potentially estranging it from the grouping of people it needs to get votes from to get the necessary swing in an Election.
JC ( no pun intended) is not really taking a lead which is a surprise given he is such a good orator amongst his own. He leaves a void which then attracts criticism

 

I am not really sold on the idea that every time the Labour Party moves to the left it loses votes Yorkie. On most aspects of his economic programme Corbyn has a large number of supporters in the country at large - but they are being dragged down by other things which have nothing to do with the left-right spectrum. Britain has never really been offered a truly left wing manifesto on anything like an even playing field - I know that some people will always bring up the example of Michael Foot, but times were different then - neo liberalism was in it's youth then and had not been so discredited as it is now, and we had not gone through a banking crisis then - in addition the Labour Party split which was what led to electoral disaster, not Foot's manifesto.

 

I am not sure that one can point to the policies of Corbyn being attractive to the majority of the population. The sudden surge in popularity might have come about from a desire to see change, not specifically his way forward, but a desire to get away from the dreadful way that the government was taking the country. As his policies have been examined in greater detail some of them proved to be not so practical. The times I read that both parties are shambolic. It is difficult to disagree.

 

Er...which policies are you referring to Frenchie ?

 

When his policies were put to the public, without the name of the Labour Party attached to them, they were supported by 80% of the electorate. Of course, shallow lot us electorate. Branding is more important to us than substance.

 

Sadly JC is not interested in the politics of working the media seemingly... And with so many of the old PLP marginalised.
It is not his policies per se.. But is how he is portrayed..
I can't see middle of the road Tory voters changing to vote Labour..

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I was thinking about how he suggested that all student loans would be cancelled, then when the cost was pointed out he withdrew the idea. That policy would have clearly appealed to those with the debts, but maybe they now see it as a ill-conceived idea.

 

And the nature of the beast is that we need middle of the road Tories to change Yorkie. Unfortunately if you have 36-38% of the population who are deluded then it doesn't matter what the rest do if they are divided between other parties - this is the nature of our political system. Presuming that the Lib Dems would never again go into coalition with the Tories, then a result of PR would be a permanent left of centre coalition - this is what people who mumble about 'the will of the people' should consider more often.

 

I don't consider it a sign of weakness when a politician changes his position as a result of consultation Frenchie - British politicians should try it more often.

 

I think the political system is broken in the UK.... two party democracy is not fit for the modern world IMO.

 

The Labour Party has had a massive division within since Momentum gained a substantial foothold within the party. The cracks are now splitting open daily. The moderate MP's fear being deselected by the extreme left mobs which now dominate local constituencies. Despite this the two main parties had near record support at the last election squeezing out the centre ground. The UK obviously saw the Macron effect in France and decided it was not for us. In France support for the centre ground has been replaced by a huge resurgence of the far right, who are now favourites to top the European elections in May.

The FPTP UK voting system will not change for the foreseeable future, the last attempt failed miserably.

 

The deficiencies of the FPTP UK voting system are being shown up on a daily basis SH. It is an anachronism in our time and age that such a system still exists. It will last until Labour need other parties in coalition in order to win power. Tony Blair was in favour of PR. but was talked out of it by others in his Government (notably Gordon Brown). It is only a matter of time before we get a constellation in power which enables this reform to happen. The irony is that if Blair had had his way on this then the whole Brexit fiasco would never have happened.

 

The Tories had the Lib Dems in coalition and granted them a go at changing the system. There was no public appetite for change then, that remains the position today. The UK prefers FPTP, it has seen the paralyse PR can cause in other countries, sometimes months without a government. No thanks.

 

It was a flawed vote choice.. Sadly the lib dems were blindsided.
Given what the electorate have seen take place over the last two years.. There may well be a different will of the people..

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No, this is merely wishful thinking, it ain't gonna happen matey.

 

I say it again.. The lib dems accepted a pr referendum which was flawed in the question and type of PR offered.. Pretty much all commentators say it.

Nothing to do with wishful thinking..

Given the complete mess YOUR party is currently making in Govt...

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