Article: Next 2 games the real test of how far we've come.... | Football, Liverpool

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SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING

SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2011
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There is no doubt that Liverpool have improved....but that wasn't really difficult IMO!

There's a fluency, a zest to the way we are playing and a togetherness from top to bottom at the club. This makes us all feel good and look forward to our football...and it has been great to watch, no doubt.

However, like me, I'm guessing that most here want more than good football! We want silverware and at the very least CL qualification......and although we've had a good start, I'd argue that the next two games will give us a real indication of what we should expect for this season; away games with Stoke and Spurs; both a difficult place to get a result and one a main rival for a top 4 spot.

I'd suggest that to demonstrate top 4 capability and keep the buzz going, we'd need 4 points from these games (if offered, I'd take it now!); any less and it could indicate a very tight season ahead....any more and, well, Kenny will have to keep a lid on things!

Of course, nothing is decided in September.....but a lot can be learnt in the month as to who will likely challenge, and who will likely not....

What point's haul would you accept now from these two games?

YNWA
 
I want nothing less than 6 points, however the Stoke game is very difficult and Spurs away is not an easy fixture.

4 points would be great 2 points would be the minimum, I don't think we can afford to lose either game.
 
luvgonzo said:
I want nothing less than 6 points, however the Stoke game is very difficult and Spurs away is not an easy fixture.

4 points would be great 2 points would be the minimum, I don't think we can afford to lose either game.
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I think we can afford to lose a game, maybe even both and still go on to qualify for the CL (given the start Spurs and Arsenal have had); my point is that these two games could indicate how hard top 4 will be to qualify for.
 
We NEED to beat spurs at white hart lane. I'd take a loss from united at old toilet for a win against the spuds at WHL, just for family bragging rights
 
One game at a time, lets give everything we have to pick up 3 points at the weekend then go to Spurs with a different game plan.
 
i disagree with this.

It is not results individually be performance that matters. If we play well against TWO (not one) teams who will be contending for top 6 slots (yes i rate stoke that much) we can get results but games can go either way.

This is how to think about form in relation to the final table position;

1. form is not an individaul game, anyone can lose a match. the best teams don't lose them in a row.

2. The table topping team gets 85-90 points usually. thats 9 to 10 points out of every 12 or 3wins and one draw out of 4... on average.

3. the team in 4th gets 70points, usually. thats about 8points out of 12 or just under 3 wins in 4.

Apply these rules and there is no individual pressure to win any one game... rather there is a consistent drive to pick up points always. If we lose one of these games I won't be too worried as long as we played well.

if we take 4 points it'd be great!
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
i disagree with this.

It is not results individually be performance that matters. If we play well against TWO (not one) teams who will be contending for top 6 slots (yes i rate stoke that much) we can get results but games can go either way.

This is how to think about form in relation to the final table position;

1. form is not an individaul game, anyone can lose a match. the best teams don't lose them in a row.

2. The table topping team gets 85-90 points usually. thats 9 to 10 points out of every 12 or 3wins and one draw out of 4... on average.

3. the team in 4th gets 70points, usually. thats about 8points out of 12 or just under 3 wins in 4.

Apply these rules and there is no individual pressure to win any one game... rather there is a consistent drive to pick up points always. If we lose one of these games I won't be too worried as long as we played well.

if we take 4 points it'd be great!
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I like this. It can apply to what I was thinking originally....

If we lose next 2 games, our stats would suggest that we will not have CL qualifying form, in other words, it's not going to be as easy as we all hope. Whereas if we get 3 points, we'd still have CL form....but more would be a bonus and highly indicative of a genuine top 4 place.
 
let me set you out a little extra point.

in 2009 we ran about 9 points of out 12 the whole way until a period when we lost to middlesboro and drew with wigan... we lost the league right there that year, that was the 4 points utd topped us by. we only got 4 points out of 12 around those games. utd got 12.

put it this way, if utd lose one they go win 5..... so if we want to match the top teams if we drop 2 points (sunderland) we go win the next 3. thats what has to happen.

If we lose one then the max we can get out of the set of 4 games is 9points... so you go win 4 out of 4 in the next block of 4 games.

for 4th though its only 70 points = 1.85points per game or 7.36 points out of 12.... translate into win 2 draw 2.... ergo for me 4th is on if we just be hard to beat and pick up good points... two away draws = not too bad in that regard.

4th means you really can't afford to be losing to these rivals, winning one will push us from that 7 or 8 points on to the title form utd and city have demonstrated!
 
I think it's actually more feasible to pick up three points at Spurs than at Stoke. If we can take 4 points from 6 then I'd be a happy bear.
 
6 points isnt unreasonable to try for, but realistically speaking we need 4 points minimum.We also dont want to fall into a pattern of drawing too many games.

Beating spurs away should also boost confidence since our away form wasnt amazing last season.
 
i think the consensus here is people would love to hockey spurs just for thier fans and manager's sake but think stoke are a damn hard fixture.

The point on away form made by slp is a good one, away form is what we need to change to get to the cl again.
 
Firslty I agree with the above comments. However I would like to suggest one thing. Liverpool are not just a side that is challenging for 4th and a lot of people need to realise this. I'm not just refering to rival fans, but also Liverpool fans. As far as I'm concerned Spurs are no longer Liverpools rivals. They had their day in the sun when Liverpool were in financial meltdown and now its over. Spurs are a top 6th to 8th side.

There is a reason for this, Spurs smell of one thing and one thing only.....mediocrity. They have mediocre players and a mediocre manager. As for Arsenal they have gone back-wards. They were and this is past tense vastly superior to Liverpool, but in the last nine months Liverpool have sped past them. Liverpool are currently on another level to Arsenal.

Liverpool proved this when they went to the emirates and dominated posession, some may suggest that game was a close contest until the sending off. Sorry that doesn't wash with me, Liverpool changed the game when they made their substitutiions. Everyone knows the strength of a side is the strength of its bench. Liverpool had Mereiles (whom has now left, but will be replaced in the squad with the imminent return of Steven Gerrard) and Luis Suarez. Arsenal had Henri Lansbury. Notice the difference.

To the main point, Liverpools target is first, and theres not debating that. Liverpool are at least challenging Chelsea for 3rd. If they can collect maximum to near maximum points in the next two games they have every chance of proving they can match Chelsea. Chelsea are unconvincing, and Liverpool have every chance of overtaking Chelsea due to Fernando Torres being shot shy.
 
el pistelero... you are right thats where we want to be. i think things have changed so fast and are still changing and our "belief" or "confidence" as fans either hasn't caught up with kenny or perhaps we just don't know where we are at.

spurs... I'll just insult them all right now.

Ramos took them from midtable with occasional flirtations with europe to near relegation. harry took over and bascially instantly changed the form of a bunch of english players who wouldn't follow the spainards orders. yes he did well but lets be frank here.

first rafa benitez self destructed under G&H and finished 7th.... man city spent so much and utter flopped by losing that one game to spurs and let them into the CL... they met the benietz factor again there and while the got thumped for 45mins at the san siro the guy took the gas off and let the spuds get 3 goals... don't even pretend they came out after the break and dominated, inter fell asleep... rafa lost his players and so spurs got the bg win at home <applause? weel done... you got trashed in the knock outs.

spurs no matter what they say don't have the spends nor the players to get into the CL. simply put the "big 6" stuff the press are on about are fooling themselves. the big players only play for sides i nthe cl... why do we thing meireles chuffed off to chelsea?

there is about to be a dog fight this year between arsenal and liverpool for 4th. spurs et al can forget it. City, utd and cheslea should take the top 3.... if liveprool don't get 4th there's a decision coming for suarez... lets not fool ourselves lieks spuds fans expecting vdv or modric to hang about.

4th is a stepping stone.....

whether we are headed for a title tilt in the next 3 years as kenny says or not this year 4th is vital to push us on. its cut throat and arsenal have the big stadium, big wages and cl football... we have to take them on and take thier place and ruin their club or our club will be ruined.... why cos the big money city and cheslea spends are taking the slots we were in possession of.
 
Moreinjuredthanowen.
Let me put it another way. Hicks and Gillett in a way were like Randy Lerner. Hicks and Gillett backed Rafa for a small period and then turned the tap off. They expected after a small investment that Liverpool would remain in the CL. Sorry it doesn't work like that, it is as you said cut-throat.

You cannot stand still, someone will creep up behind you and take your place.
Arsenal did it to Liverpool, so did Spurs. However, Liverpool have now got their own back, both Arsenal and Spurs have stood still. Its up to Liverpool to cut their throats.

I believe that John Henry is not the sort that will stand stand still or will ever stand still. He wants progression and he will ensure he gets progression. He's already said that their will be an annual investment in the squad, however that progression has to occur first. John Henry has not been as successful as he's been by standing still. Kenny is the same sort of animal.

Never expect him to accept that 4th is the maximum that Liverpool can achieve. He's been taught differently, he's come from an era that ''1st is 1st...2nd is nowhere''. He will ensure that Liverpool aim for first, and if they don't achieve it immediately, he will do everything in his power to ensure they get there eventually.

His atitude is like the playing still he tries to adopt...forward thinking.
 
I hate this.

It's a match. If we win then wahayy! If not then grrr.

It's not a statement of how far we've come or how far we haven't. It's not a statement of top4 intent or another year out of the CL.

It's just a match. Barca lost 2-0 in their second match last season. To Hercules.
 
redconn said:
I hate this.

It's a match. If we win then wahayy! If not then grrr.

It's not a statement of how far we've come or how far we haven't. It's not a statement of top4 intent or another year out of the CL.

It's just a match. Barca lost 2-0 in their second match last season. To Hercules.
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Redconn; at what point do you start to count results that contribute to our final position?

I'd also wager (am not checking) that Barca went on to win their next 5 games....

Basically, with respect, I totally disagree with you and thank the stars that the management don't think like this anymore.....this was washed away with Roy.
 
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