Aye I do. What happened after he exposed those youngsters to first team football? Could have sworn Clark, Howey, Watson, Elliott, went on to become part of a thriving Newcastle while Armstrong had a very decent career.
What happened after he exposed them to first team football? We nearly got relegated to the 3rd tier that's what, and we would have done had not Keegan come in and kept us up. There was a massive lack of experience in that team and it was ripped apart by 3 every team. Watson barely played for over a year after Ardiles left cos he was too young (became a regular in the Prem) Howey was an awful striker under Ardiles, only Clark was any good under him (Elliott came through later) And that's before we get on to dross like Appleby and Neilson that Ardiles used to play regularly.
I'm with Pouchy on this one. Rafa plays youth when there are no other players available. If it was me, Longstaff, Roberts, Woodman, Sterry and Armstrong would all be first team members (regardless of injuries). That is not too much of a risk. For an example: Rafa picked Hayden, Manquillo, Darlow and Joselu either starting or on the bench away to Cardiff - I'm sorry but not one of these are significantly better than the youngsters I mentioned A second example: Rafa picked Joselu, Atsu, Manquillo and Darlow all on the bench - again surely at least 2 of these could have been youngsters?
I am not going to comment on Longstaff until you tell me what I should be doing (a la Dubravka), preferably with some words in CAPITALS so it is very clear to me.
The Armstrong rocks bandwagon rolls on Regardless of how **** Joselu may or may not be, a player who couldn't even cut it in the championship is obviously going to get nowhere near our first team. Woodman yes I'd agree with, but Roberts and Sterry are all potential atm and need loan time before being unleashed. Longstaff has slotted straight into the first team showing no nerves, which is a rarity rather than the norm.
In literally the Championship! Look at his record in the Championship before he moved to Blackburn - one goal in 20 games! We ditched Gayle cos he was decent in the Championship but not good enough for the Prem, why would we want a player worse than Gayle?!
Sorry mate you can't make this up as you go and just re-write history. This is the same as claiming Rafa hauled Saylor off. He didn't Saylor was preferred by Rafa until he limped off and he had to pick Lascelles. Not sure what team you were watching under Ardiles. He was the one who had the idea of converting Howey to a centre back, I can't recall many that season as a striker if any. Indeed I seem to recall he was played as part of a back three at times? Elliott came through in the same team as Howey, Clark, Watson, Armstrong. All were blooded that season. The likes of Howey, Elliott and Armstrong probably only played 10-15 games from memory. Watson and Clark played a lot of football. I reckon 25 games each that season. Yes we did very nearly get relegated to the 3rd tier. Ardiles working on a tight budget struggled, as did Jim Smith. Lets not pretend it was entirely down to KK. We did have a new owner and new money too! Anyone who followed Newcastle in those years, knows this severely impacted our ability to achieve anything. There were some very important signings by KK in Kilcine and Sheedy, ones Newcastle could not afford under Ardiles. The fact remains those 4 players were blooded and given the opportunity, and a manager who was willing to take the pain of youthful mistakes to gain long term. The problem is some fans seem to think unless you get a class of 92 who hit the ground running, its not worth taking any pain. I disagree with this notion completely. You ask Keegan if he thanks Ardiles for providing him with his starting centre back, starting central midfielder, back up left back, and back right back for the promotion season. The latter 2 going on to represent Newcastle to a high level in the future as starting players. With Watson maybe he was too young under Smith, but Ardiles knew there was talent which required perseverance. KK simply had a budget which Newcastle didn't have previously. He had the luxury of guaranteeing promotion with Kilcline and Venison coming in. This made it tricky for young Watto, these were seasoned pros. Keegan kept him around the first team though. I am not clamouring for these young players to be playing 40 games a season. I just want them blooded. Ardiles knew how to get it right, slowly slowly. He could maybe have used them a little less if we'd had more senior options. But giving them 15 games or so and a decent run saw us benefit no end.
What are you talking about? Sheedy was signed on a free and Killer came in a loan initially (250k signing at the end of the season), so we blantantly could have signed them under Ardiles, it's just they were unlikely to sign for a manager they thought they were going to get relegated to the third tier with. Plus Smith and Ardiles did have some money, Smith being allowed to pay big money for Micky Quinn, and Ardiles signing David Kelly. Ardiles did NOT know how to get it right "slowly slowly", he took apart Jim Smith's dour but effective older team and brought in a large amount of youth players far too quickly. The signing of Killer under KK managed to stablise the massively leaky defence enough for us to stay up, and the defence was then transformed with the signings of Beresford and Venison, and then the midfield transformed with Rob Lee signed after a few games. Ardiles played nice football and gave the kids a chance, but his results were wretched, and his time with us can never be viewed as anything other than a disaster. "Take the pain of youthful mistakes"? That "pain" would have been us getting relegated to the third tier, little gain afterwards if that had happened! And "guaranteeing promotion" is extremely exaggerated, considering Keegan smashed the division with the team that nearly got relegated with only 3 new players (Beresford, Venison and Lee.....Cole and Sellars came in when the title was basically won).
Your Newcastle United history is shocking mate . I think, and don't hold me to this, loaning and signing free transfers costs money. You do realise we didn't have SJH as sole owner when Ardiles was manager? You do realise the battle he had to take it over? We had no ****ing money, and what we maybe did we wouldn't spend. The takeover prevented Ossie spending, its well documented - he had 250K to spend from memory and it largely went on David Kelly (yes KK can thank him for that too). So no, we actually blatantly could not sign them. KK spent about 700k on Rob Lee, 650K on Beresford, 250K on Venison, 250K on Bracewell (I accept these could be slightly out off the top of my head). The increase in wages alone nevermind the fees was huge. You can't be seriously suggesting that KK didn't buy his way out of the championship? We bought Bracewell, Venison, Beresford and Robert Lee. Later we added Robinson, Cole and Sellars for the last 3 months. We spent 4.75m that season. Astronomical at the time in that league. You do realise we were adding Bracewell at 30, Venison at 28. I mean they'd only played for Liverpool and Everton. We had Killer too from the year before. Come on lets be at least honest, money played a massive part in our sudden upturn. There were other factors, we had a better manager, we had a massive feel good from the takeover. Largely as is usual in football, having a great transfer budget helps. KK spent 5m plus before he even got to the PL. Name me a team around that time who spent that and didn't get promoted. I am not suggesting that Ardiles was the right man for the job - I think its pretty clear he wasn't. Though you'd have to be honest and say he never really had a chance. Tactically he was pretty naive to say the least. I was never suggesting that he did a great job - only he did a great job of blooding young players which we reaped reward from. We massively did and I for one thank him for that because I'd have never got the great KK years in the same way without him. Having local lads like Howey, Watson, Elliott and Clark was massive to the support at the time. You don't chuck the baby out with the bath water. His problem wasn't too many young players or giving them a chance, it was the structure he brought them into. If he was able to sign like Keegan was, who knows what would have happened as he blooded young players alongside better players. To suggest that because he wasn't a roaring success with results means those players should not have been blooded is wrong in my eyes. The proof it was correct came because as soon as you got a manager like KK who gave them a structure and players which was correct, they got the results. All the while Howey and Clark improving before Watson joined them a year later. If you don't want to take that pain, then I'm afraid there is no point in having a youth system. There is no point in signing top young talent. Personally I want a successful youth system. To do that you must take chances on young players and show them a pathway. Otherwise they won't want to be part of your system and will want to go elsewhere. Gibson was the most recent but by no means the only. Michael Carrick will attest to that.
Why don't you add some meat to those bones mate? I will seen as you are struggling. Where exactly did Armstrong play for Barnsley and Bolton?? Ah yes the majority of games out on the right wing. Did a job for the team. Remind me of Harry Kane's efforts in the championship? 14 in 56 games. 1 in 4. Must be ****e eh?
I completely disagree with your assertions that we bought the league and promotion was guaranteed. That accusation could definitely be leveled at us in 16/17, but in 92/93 our spending wasn't huge until the end, and the majority of that figure you cite was spent on Cole and Sellars, by which time the league was as good as wrapped up. The nucleas of the team was Clark, Liam O'Brien, Kevin Scott, Howey, Peacock, Kelly, Srnicek, backed up by players like Brock, Sheedy and Killer .....i.e all players who had only just avoided relegation the previous. The defence was solidified with Venison and Beresford, but you can't say we bought the league, when the vast majority of the team were the same previous season! Plus Venison and Bracewell were reasonably priced seasons, only Beresford and Lee were above average for that division at the time (I'm not including Cole because, as I said, the work was done by the time he got there). Plus does throwing money around guarantee success anyway? The year after we went up, 93/94, Wolves started throwing the cash around and making signings that were far bigger than the ones we'd made, and they achieved nothing. In addition Villa have spend recently and got nowhere.
Lies, damn lies and statistics, I'm afraid. Should we also compare to Messi, who got a measly 7 goals in his first season. Does this mean Armstrong could be a potential galactico too? Armstrong is decent, but despite his young age, I don't see him being beyond championship standard, and certainly not a player who has a Jon Dahl Tomasson style career after leaving us. Joselu always gets grief here, but I'm sure he'd bang in plenty in the Championship too, I don't really see Armstrong making a difference had he been here.
Joselu couldn't score 15 goals in the conference! I'd much rather have Armstrong than Joselu, bit more versatile, infinitely more potential and I'd suggest a better finisher despite being 6 years his junior and would give usa slightly different option off the bench and if your looking for work rate I don't think he'd ever give less than the Jos. Again I think it depends on them getting their chance at the top level to prove themselves and continue their progression. Once you start dropping leagues the standard of your team mates, training and matches lowers and therefore you won't progress as much as you possibly could have if you'd have stuck around at the top level. Do need loans though at a young age 18-21 to go and get competitive action. Armstrong is still only 22 and seem's to be progressing well at B'burn - since the turn of the year in 9 games he's laid on 3 goals and 5 assists while playing 1 game up front in those 9, he's mainly being utilised as an inside forward off the left wing but he'll end up playing EPL football with someone soon, just a shame it won't be with us.
At the same time, if we had him back now, he wouldn't be a regular starter and would just get a handful of bench and league cup appearances each season; and he wants first team football so he wouldn't settle for that. He's been loaned out for 3 years now, and we can't just have players on loan indefinitely for 5, 6 years or more, under the belief that they're raw talent and will one day become Prem standard. The likes of Bigi, Tavernier and Vuckic were loaned forever, and never made the step up and have now all found their level. Armstrong is probably better than all of those, but definitely not Prem standard yet. I'll be happy for him if he does become a Prem regular and come back to haunt us, but I don't see it happening right now.
