Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

They're already studying it - my son had a question on Brexit in his Modern Studies Higher mock exam last week, asking to lay out the advantages and disadvantages of leaving the EU - what chance has he got, when even the ****ish politicians haven't got a clue.

Make sure he doesn't read any of the crap I write on here and then use it in an exam.

 

[ELLERS]

Describe a ‘managed no deal’ and what is required to put it in place before 29 March please Goldie.

I can even answer this one as I heard it explained on the radio. Although it was from a Brexiteer.

 

[Sooperhoop]

Rising number of young knife victims a 'major concern' for doctors
Doctors call for knife crime to be treated as a public health issue as the number of youngsters treated in hospital rises by 55%.
By Paul Kelso, health correspondent
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Saturday 9 February 2019 04:19, UK

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Image: Kiyan Prince, 15, was stabbed to death outside his school as he tried to break up a fight

• Why you can trust Sky News
  Hospital admissions of children and teenagers assaulted with knives or other sharp objects have increased by 55% in five years, prompting NHS leaders to call for action to stop sales of weapons to young people.
  Admissions for all injuries caused by assault with a knife or similar weapon have gone up by almost a third since 2012-13, from 3,849 to 4,986 last year.
  The number of admissions of children and teenagers has increased almost twice as fast however, with 1,012 10 to 19-year-olds admitted in the year to March 2018.
  People aged 20-29 accounted for more than 1,900 episodes of consultant care, an increase of 24% since 2012-13, and cases involving under-30s accounted for 60% of admissions.
  The figures are further evidence that knife crime is reaching epidemic proportions among the young, and increasing numbers of victims are children.
  Earlier this week it was revealed that the number of stabbing deaths in the year to March 2018 was the highest since records began in 1949, with 285 people killed. Overall knife crime was up 8% in the year to September.
  While these statistics include assaults with weapons other than a knife, and the number of admissions does not equate directly to the number of individuals injured, teenagers and children are disproportionately affected by knife crime.
  It is this impact on the young that most troubles NHS staff working in trauma units who now routinely treat stabbing victims on a daily basis.
  
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  Image: Trauma surgeon Martin Griffiths says he sees on average two stabbings every day
  Trauma surgeon Martin Griffiths, who works at England's largest A&E department at the Royal London Hospital, says he expects to treat two stabbing victims a day.
  "In practice what has changed is that we are seeing a lot more young people and adolescents who have severe injuries. That used to be an occasional occurrence and that is now the norm. I expect to admit someone of school age this week as a matter of course."
  Mr Griffiths is one of the leading proponents of treating knife crime as a public health issue rather than simply a criminal problem, and with Barts Health NHS Trust, of which Royal London is a part, has developed methods of working with injured youngsters to try to end the cycle of violence.
  Working with charity the St Giles Trust they have managed to reduce readmission of victims who suffer subsequent assaults from 45% to less than 1%.
  "In our service at Bart's Health in conjunction with St Giles' Trust we have fantastic success in reducing retaliation and readmission with our patients," Mr Griffiths said.
  "But there is no doubt we have to address the root causes of violence which start in childhood. We need to do work in society and in the community in developing resilient relationships, communication skills, aspiration and providing resource to allow people to be diverted away from bad choices."
  
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  Image: Mark Prince, who lost his son Kiyan to knife crime, supports the public health approach
  The NHS is calling for tougher action against retailers who break the law by selling knives to people under 18.
  Professor Chris Moran, national clinical director for trauma at NHS England, said: "Hospital visits linked to knife crime and other violence is a major cause for concern and puts extra pressure on our expert staff.
  "Far too many young people are able to buy knives on the high street, and we need councils and retailers to work together to stop this."
  The public health approach to tackling knife crime is backed by Mark Prince, a campaigner whose 15-year-old son Kiyan was killed in 2006 after he tried to break up a fight outside his school.
  He said: "We have take a public health approach. We have to reform our youth services. We have to create more opportunities for employment.
  "We have to start utilising the communities and the organisations in the communities - having them well-funded so they can do the work.
  "We have to start boosting the support for the school system because that looks like it is under pressure and failing young people."
  
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  Image: Gayle Hann believes a more holistic approach is needed
  Paediatrician Dr Gayle Hann, of North Middlesex Hospital, says hospitals can play a bigger role by intervening with injured youngsters.
  "Stitching them up and putting them back on the streets - I'm seeing the same faces coming back. Therefore, we have to do something and as a hospital we have been going out in the community.
  "I'm involved in knife crime prevention, going out to schools, parents and the police to talk. It's a whole system approach. We can't just sit in our silos."
  The recently published NHS Long Term Plan for the health service set out improvements to emergency care and aims to build on the work of major trauma centres, introduced in 2012.
  These centres are credited with saving the lives of around 1,600 more people who suffered severe and complicated injuries.
  
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  Sky News on the trail of youth knife crime in the West Midlands
  Last week, Home Secretary Sajid Javid announced plans for new knife crime prevention orders that could be imposed on suspects aged 12 or over.
  A Home Office spokeswoman said: "We are very concerned about the increase in knife crime and its devastating consequences.
  "Our serious violence strategy sets out the action we are taking to tackle this, which includes a greater focus on early intervention, alongside strong enforcement.
  "The government is also seeking to amend the Offensive Weapons Bill to introduce new knife crime prevention orders which will focus on preventing vulnerable young people from becoming involved in knife crime. We will also be taking further action against retailers found to be selling knives to children."

Another death in East Dulwich about 3 miles away from me last night, throat slashed outside an off licence. Often these can start as something very trivial and end horrifically. If we wait for politicians to try and end it we'll be waiting far too long...

 

[Deleted.......]

Describe a ‘managed no deal’ and what is required to put it in place before 29 March please Goldie.

It's already being prepared by the EU Stan - basically emergency amendments to regulations on issues like trade, animal health and fisheries to allow for some things to continue with minimum disruption. On our side there's the 6 or 7 Brexit bills which are all in varying stages of the parliamentary process and most would be used for certain situations in a no deal scenario. We just need all MPs to behave like grown ups so don't hold your breath just yet.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Describe a ‘managed no deal’ and what is required to put it in place before 29 March please Goldie.

According to the Sunday Express, Brussels has said talks for mnd have started. No details yet but it would involve the EU and UK working with WTO authorities to keep trade just as it is after March 29 on an interim basis. If another country complains, they would have to prove damage. Details of the talks are secret, so we await to hear more

 

[sb_73]

It's already being prepared by the EU Stan - basically emergency amendments to regulations on issues like trade, animal health and fisheries to allow for some things to continue with minimum disruption. On our side there's the 6 or 7 Brexit bills which are all in varying stages of the parliamentary process and most would be used for certain situations in a no deal scenario. We just need all MPs to behave like grown ups so don't hold your breath just yet.

According to the Sunday Express, Brussels has said talks for mnd have started. No details yet but it would involve the EU and UK working with WTO authorities to keep trade just as it is after March 29 on an interim basis. If another country complains, they would have to prove damage. Details of the talks are secret, so we await to hear more

Thanks lads, I genuinely didn’t know. Isn’t that very similar to extending Article 50? Sounds a bit like kicking the can down the road again to me, and as John Pienaar said on the wireless, the can is empty.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Thanks lads, I genuinely didn’t know. Isn’t that very similar to extending Article 50? Sounds a bit like kicking the can down the road again to me, and as John Pienaar said on the wireless, the can is empty.

No, I think we leave the EU on 29 March with no payments made and no tariffs on trade, pending formal free trade agreement. And no backstop...

 

[sb_73]

No, I think we leave the EU on 29 March with no payments made and no tariffs on trade, pending formal free trade agreement. And no backstop...

Without going down another rabbit hole, that would seem to be a strictly temporary arrangement. No way will we get a trade deal without some kind of Withdrawal Agreement, surely? What about citizens etc?

 

[Deleted.......]

Without going down another rabbit hole, that would seem to be a strictly temporary arrangement. No way will we get a trade deal without some kind of Withdrawal Agreement, surely? What about citizens etc?

A lot of the stuff is to get us to the end of 2019 so we'd have to ramp up talks I guess. I only know about a specific part of it so couldn't really comment on the wider position - if I could I'd be in minority of one....

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Without going down another rabbit hole, that would seem to be a strictly temporary arrangement. No way will we get a trade deal without some kind of Withdrawal Agreement, surely? What about citizens etc?

Yes, you're right, and Dan. It's temporary but presumably open ended. There will have to be agreements as to aeroplanes, citizens etc. I imagine status quo will be kept, but freedom of movement ended. Ireland border would stay soft pro tem. We'll have to wait until the media get broad hold of this, and even then exact details will be speculation

 

[ELLERS]

A lot of the stuff is to get us to the end of 2019 so we'd have to ramp up talks I guess. I only know about a specific part of it so couldn't really comment on the wider position - if I could I'd be in minority of one....

They were saying that they could extend to 5 years. I think it's part of article 24 of WTO to have a free trade deal and hope that in 2 to 5 years all will be sorted. I must admit I do like the sound of this because it answers the backstop question and keeps everything going but.... I believe will still hand over the money or at least some of it.

 

[kiwiqpr]

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[ELLERS]

EU talks with the UK about managed no-deal
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1085185/brexit-eu-uk-no-deal-brexit-latest-politics

 

[ELLERS]

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I like they way they have changed this cartoon around. I seem to remember it with us going over the edge.

 

[Steelmonkey]

Another death in East Dulwich about 3 miles away from me last night, throat slashed outside an off licence. Often these can start as something very trivial and end horrifically. If we wait for politicians to try and end it we'll be waiting far too long...

There's been a large reduction in knife crime in Glasgow over recent years, largely due to the work of the Violence Reduction Unit, not a just a police idea, but an NHS one too, looking at knife crime as a public health issue as well as a policing issue.

From murder capital of Europe to role model for London - BBC News https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691

 

[Stroller]

It's already being prepared by the EU Stan - basically emergency amendments to regulations on issues like trade, animal health and fisheries to allow for some things to continue with minimum disruption. On our side there's the 6 or 7 Brexit bills which are all in varying stages of the parliamentary process and most would be used for certain situations in a no deal scenario. We just need all MPs to behave like grown ups so don't hold your breath just yet.

Sounds like you know what you're talking about Dan, which is rare on here. This is not a solution though, is it? Just delay.

 

[Deleted.......]

Sounds like you know what you're talking about Dan, which is rare on here. This is not a solution though, is it? Just delay.

It's delay for minimum disruption. You can see most of the planning documents on the Commision's website.

 

[sb_73]

I like they way they have changed this cartoon around. I seem to remember it with us going over the edge.

Have a look at Ben Garrison’s cartoons Ellers, a google image search will do it. He is an American ‘libertarian’ right wing variety, and the darling of the US alt right. He is also the darling of white supremacists, and he protests that many of his cartoons have been altered on line to make them anti black and especially anti Semitic. However, this one is genuine, so he might be protesting too much

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I entirely support his right to draw cartoons and express his opinions on anything he likes. Personally I think a cartoonist who needs to patronise his audience by labelling everything either has no confidence in the intelligence of his readers or no confidence in his own drawing. But that’s just me.

 

[Stroller]

What you mean like Diane Abbott?

There really should be an option to 'dislike' dumb posts such as this. Didn't they used to have that?

 

[ELLERS]

There really should be an option to 'dislike' dumb posts such as this. Didn't they used to have that?

The only thing dumb Stroller is Abbott!. I wouldn't know where to begin with her. I don't think I have ever heard a politician as stupid as her. I couldn't care what party she represents, she is just ridiculously stupid.