Off Topic The Politics Thread

MP's and Press knocking Tusks nasty comments. He has been described as a 'Euro maniac'

 

Bring it on!

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Oh dear we were told by the "experts" that all the banks were leaving and now official figures show the opposit.
'Bankfurt', Paris await Brexit boom as banks stay loyal to London
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-b...m-as-banks-stay-loyal-to-london-idUKKCN1PP1ZB

 

I disagree based on the state of the economy he inherited, and the state of the economy he passed on, the result of the 1992 election, and his achievements in Northern Ireland. History is increasingly kind to Major, and rightly so.

 

How can you possibly celebrate the 1992 election without refering to Black Wednesday later that year when Major presided over the ignominious withdrawal from the ERM and the Conservatives lost any reputation for forming a credible economic policy for the next 16 years? And have you forgotten that Major's premiership and Sleaze became one and the same, Major announcing a new moral Back to Basics approach while committing adultery with Edwina Curry? George Mitchell not Major brought about the peace in N Ireland. Major then presided over the worst ever Conservative electoral defeat in 1997 - and you say history will be kind to him

Now he wants to ignore the democratic 2016 EU referendum and revoke Article 50 - I hold Major in the same esteem as I hold Blair. None whatsoever. But I begin to see why you rate Juncker, Tusk and Selmayr so highly

 

Tory in-fighting

 

And, of course, the Corbynites and Blairites get on so well together!

I've never nailed my colours to the Tory mast. I evaluate parties from time to time on merit or otherwise. Do you want to stick up for John Major, Strolls? He's a keen Remainer like you, after all...

 

Major was, and is, one the less despicable Tories. Plagued by many of the same 'bastards' that are now dictating to May.

 

Presumably you support Blair on the same basis?

 

I voted for Blair in '97, but he lost my vote with Iraq.

 

Well, partially because 1992 it was an incredible victory that very few saw coming - are you at least willing to accept that?

On Black Wednesday, putting aside the irony that withdrawing from the ERM stopped us joining the Euro which I assume you're very glad about, the re-balancing of the value of the pound was very much required, and many economic historians now refer to the event as 'Golden Wednesday'. Within the ERM our economy was restrained (again, irony alert) by the value of the pound being pegged to the German Deutsche Mark. It was the exiting from the ERM that then allowed the economy to boom, leaving Blair to inherit a very robust economy. Does this mean that it wasn't a PR disaster at the time? No, but I'm not overly interested in that - more so in judging Major by what his actions achieved and led to. Would you have preferred that 'Black Wednesday' had not happened, and that we had stayed inside the ERM? If not, why do you judge Major's economic record so harshly? And how would you compare the economy in 1990 to the economy in 1997? Look forward to your replies on these.

"George Mitchell not Major brought about the peace in N Ireland"

Just to clarify, you are not willing to give Major any credit for the role he played in bringing peace to Northern Ireland?

In truth, I'm not bothered at all by the Edwina Currie issue, but worth noting the affair took place from 1984 to 1988, not when he was PM, and it wasn't known at the time.

Yes, he lost in 1997, and the scale of the defeat certainly showed that the country was tired of the Conservative Party. Like most events, the causes were multi-factorial (eg Blair's skill as a politician,length of Tory governance, PR fall out from Black Wednesday, electoral system), but I don't believe that Major was, either personally or as PM, the predominant cause of that defeat.

He certainly wasn't perfect (who is?), but his record his judged overly harshly and I certainly think the case against Boris will be stronger in the fullness of time...

 

But hasn't he regained some your approval over his attempts to overthrow the 2016 referendum? Presumably at the expense of your support for Corbyn now that we know Corbyn thinks the EU " a massive great Frankenstein". For myself, Corbyn has gone up a little in my esteem (from a very low base)

 

Did you vote Tory then? They would have got that war going quicker than a ferret down any hole.

 

Couldn't vote Tory as long as I have a hole in my arse.

 

That's not correct. Blairs war is a black spot in our history.

 

Major was highly instrumental in taking us into the ERM. It was a disaster and a national embarrassment.

You have a selective memory. It was Ken Clarke's good work as chancellor that turned the economy around later in the 1990's. Major was emeshed in sleaze.

Major was a cog in the wheels leading to peace in N Ireland but the good work was done by Mitchell

You may not be bothered by Currie, but it was rank hypocrisy and even the Tory press turned on Major. I can't believe that you're saying, after all the sleaze allegations that dominated the press, that you think Major was not a predominant cause of the problem

 

I agree Corbyn has gone up in my expectation as well. What makes me laugh is all the Corbynite lefties who want to remain have just had a big kick in the nuts. Nigel Farage said after listening to him that "Corbyn is more anti-Europe than me". I want to go back over this thread to see all the Corbyn fans comments.

 

Groan. Any economic success was down to the Clarke and therefore Major gets no credit. And yet the sleaze, from the likes of Aitken, Mellor, Yeo, Hamilton et al, is all the fault of Major? Logically incoherent.

No one individual can take credit for bringing peace to Northern Ireland, but you're significantly understating the role of Major to try and fit a narrative. See here for further detail: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/wintour-and-watt/2011/may/17/queen-ireland

 

Not really ellers. It was no secret that Corbyn was a eurosceptic. It's no different to a leaver supporting the Tory party with a remainer as its leader. Did you contemplate that. The irony is, leavers may have got what they wanted had Corbyn been in charge. As I've stated before, if labour had a stronger leader then this farcical joke of a government would be long gone!