Off Topic Politics Thread

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Just to put it out there, because I'm not embarrassed or trying to hide anything, but I voted leave. I voted leave mostly as a protest to try and shake up the establishment, partly because a situation like the leave vote winning the referendum can force change, but mostly I voted leave because I trusted our government to actually try and deliver a Brexit that was workable.
None of those things happened, and the various non-deals that have been proposed seem to be absolutely the worst that could have been created. The GFA was quietly swept under the carpet to worry about later, our PM and her red lines prevented us from negotiating anything from a position of strength, and no preparations for a possible no-deal exit were done until it was clear that we wouldn't be able to leave on that basis without the country's economy taking a massive hit.
I never read or believed the message on the bus, I never believed in the farcical sunshine and roses future that leading (I say leading, but what I actually mean is cowardly self serving bastards) brexiteers, and I certainly never believed that if a situation is appalling that we should carry on going out of principal.

I feared the idea of the EU becoming a powerful political entity as I'm a believer in small government and I hate the sort of global homogenization that is happening due to globalism, and I'd hoped that our politicians had some morality and desire to try and make things better for the people of this country.


Upshot is, if we could rescind article 50 now, I'd be quite happy as that would be disaster averted. I'd still grumble about the EU, I'd still hope for more devolution and small government, but I'd never again trust our government to try and deliver any of the changes that I felt were needed.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
The point you are completely and utterly failing to grasp is that just about every nation in the world currently has a trading agreement, mostly tariff-free, with the EU. There is, of course, one glaring exception, or there possibly will be come March 29th. Do you not think that this inescapable fact might just have a smidgeon of influence on a series of major companies moving some or all of their investment out of this country? The way things are going we might not have any trading agreements with any country at all, except under the much-vaunted WTO terms. Guess how many the government has in the pipeline? Think of a number less than 1.
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In fairness I agree with him on that Brexit was now an issue for Nissan but not the only or main reason for the change of plan.
 
Rorschach's Journal said:
Just to put it out there, because I'm not embarrassed or trying to hide anything, but I voted leave. I voted leave mostly as a protest to try and shake up the establishment, partly because a situation like the leave vote winning the referendum can force change, but mostly I voted leave because I trusted our government to actually try and deliver a Brexit that was workable.
None of those things happened, and the various non-deals that have been proposed seem to be absolutely the worst that could have been created. The GFA was quietly swept under the carpet to worry about later, our PM and her red lines prevented us from negotiating anything from a position of strength, and no preparations for a possible no-deal exit were done until it was clear that we wouldn't be able to leave on that basis without the country's economy taking a massive hit.
I never read or believed the message on the bus, I never believed in the farcical sunshine and roses future that leading (I say leading, but what I actually mean is cowardly self serving bastards) brexiteers, and I certainly never believed that if a situation is appalling that we should carry on going out of principal.

I feared the idea of the EU becoming a powerful political entity as I'm a believer in small government and I hate the sort of global homogenization that is happening due to globalism, and I'd hoped that our politicians had some morality and desire to try and make things better for the people of this country.


Upshot is, if we could rescind article 50 now, I'd be quite happy as that would be disaster averted. I'd still grumble about the EU, I'd still hope for more devolution and small government, but I'd never again trust our government to try and deliver any of the changes that I felt were needed.
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Well said, RJ - I think your thoughts echo many of those who voted leave (as well as the lie about the NHS) and many would now change their minds (and votes). I’m not a huge fan of the EU but you can only change something if you’re part of it and I think we could have continued to work on it without idiots like Farage messing it up.
If only Westminster would dare go back to the people without carrying on the way they are, I think we might yet save the country, but I feel that they’re in the thrall of the extremists and we’re headed for a crash
 
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davecg69 said:
Well said, RJ - I think your thoughts echo many of those who voted leave (as well as the lie about the NHS) and many would now change their minds (and votes). I’m not a huge fan of the EU but you can only change something if you’re part of it and I think we could have continued to work on it without idiots like Farage messing it up.
If only Westminster would dare go back to the people without carrying on the way they are, I think we might yet save the country, but I feel that they’re in the thrall of the extremists and we’re headed for a crash
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Dave, I'm a bit of a socialist and did feel that being out of the EU gave us some hope of possibly re-nationalising some of our key industries...I now know that socialism is dead in this country and that we have yet another opposition party that might as well not be there.
Corbyn had his chance but his fence sitting antics have done him no favours, and I can't see any chance of a left wing government in this country for the foreseeable future. I used to be excited by politics, now I'm just cynical and disillusioned about the whole political system.
The Tories will **** us deliberately, old labour will **** us accidentally and the rest are just there for their pensions and the other financial benefits that come with being career politicians. There are a genuine few that actually do the job to try and help society but I bet I could get them all on one bus.
 
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Rorschach's Journal said:
Dave, I'm a bit of a socialist and did feel that being out of the EU gave us some hope of possibly re-nationalising some of our key industries...I now know that socialism is dead in this country and that we have yet another opposition party that might as well not be there.
Corbyn had his chance but his fence sitting antics have done him no favours, and I can't see any chance of a left wing government in this country for the foreseeable future. I used to be excited by politics, now I'm just cynical and disillusioned about the whole political system.
The Tories will **** us deliberately, old labour will **** us accidentally and the rest are just there for their pensions and the other financial benefits that come with being career politicians. There are a genuine few that actually do the job to try and help society but I bet I could get them all on one bus.
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Think you and I are on very similar wavelengths, RJ. I was bought up by my Dad to have a balanced view (always look at both sides, he used to say) of politics but with a leaning towards socialistic ways. I’m for a good NHS, a welfare state to help the poorest, decent unions and fair taxes. I believe in capitalism to a point, but am fed up by getting screwed over by both right and left - it seems that most politicians these days are in it for themselves. This farce at the moment could have been stopped if there had been a strong opposition and not one whose leader secretly also wants out, but has no better plan than the jokers in power. Now, we’re looking at the next vote being on February 14 (cue press headlines about St Valentines massacre) and the EU review in March. Boris, Rees-Mogg and company want to hold everything so parliament have no option to either agree a bad deal or no deal - it’s scary.
 
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Beddytare said:
Yet we are being told our unemployment is the lowest for decades. That despite all this uncertainty. Although in truth I hear what your saying.
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The figures are massaged.
If you’re working one hour a week you are classed as employed.
Even people doing unpaid work in the family home are now being counted as employed.
Part time workers, regardless of the number of hours worked are counted as employed.
People like my wife, who can’t work owing to illness, aren’t counted as unemployed, whereas they are in other countries.
The employment figures need to be looked at more closely, and should be recorded more appropriately to show the numbers in full employment, part time and on zero hours.
 
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Beddytare said:
Yet we are being told our unemployment is the lowest for decades. That despite all this uncertainty. Although in truth I hear what your saying.
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That's wrong. employment is at record highs across the country. unemployment is going up in many regions at the same time. East Midlands and York and Humber had both rising last time round!!! More people employed AND more unemployed.
 
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Here’s our most expensive MP’s expenses for the year to last September:
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ChilcoSaint said:
Here’s our most expensive MP’s expenses for the year to last September:
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Click to expand...
On further research I owe Ms Patel an apology. She isn’t the most expensive MP, she actually claims less than the average.
Total expenses claimed from 1/10/2017 to 30/09/2018: £115,714,079.70
Average claimed by 650 MP’s: £178,921.54
Highest claiming MP: Jim Shannon (DUP, Strangford) £245,407.47
Lowest claiming: 7 MP’s including Vince Cable £0

All taken from here:
https://www.mpsexpenses.info/#!/all
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
On further research I owe Ms Patel an apology. She isn’t the most expensive MP, she actually claims less than the average.
Total expenses claimed from 1/10/2017 to 30/09/2018: £115,714,079.70
Average claimed by 650 MP’s: £178,921.54
Highest claiming MP: Jim Shannon (DUP, Strangford) £245,407.47
Lowest claiming: 7 MP’s including Vince Cable £0

All taken from here:
https://www.mpsexpenses.info/#!/all
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I've been involved in various negotiations over the years and of late online "debates" where I regard the provenance of statements to be vital to the argument. Recently the technology for seamless border controls was said to be in place; it was by a centre-right think tank with no credible source. I'm a (retired) instrumentation and control systems engineer and don't believe the 208 (source https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...fficials-from-north-and-south-agree-1.3474246) can be monitored with today's technology. Add the channel ports and tunnel movements also (dependant on brexit terms) the possibility in the not to distant future of Scotland leaving the union chaos is the probable outcome.

Jab
 
SaintinSerbia said:
Is the world getting better and fairer? If I stole a frozen chicken from Iceland or forgot to pay €3.3m in taxes, which offence would send me to prison?
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I don't think you'ld get sent to Prison for stealing a chicken from Iceland. Unless you had made a habit of it and had been caught several times before. So 5 frozen chickens on 5 separate occasions might do it.
 
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