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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    :eek: We leave on 29th March get over it fella.
     
    #27421
  2. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    Yes or no ellers? It's a simple question that I'm sure you can answer or find someone on a radio phone in who could.
     
    #27422
  3. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    how did you all survive
    no fresh lettuce for 3 days
    did the price of perrier explode


    Calais strike: Huge tailbacks on both sides of Channel as French ferry workers block port for third day running
    Lorries queue on both sides of the Channel Tunnel while industrial row unresolved
    The Independent
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    People play football amongst lorries parked on both carriageways of the M20 in Ashford, Kent ( PA )
    Lorry drivers sweltered in huge tailbacks on both sides of the Channel as the French ferry workers blocked the port of Calais for the third day running.
    With the ferry protest likely to continue, cross-Channel travellers face delays up to and over the weekend. An estimated 5,000 trucks queued on the M20 motorway in Kent. There were similar tail-backs on the French side of the Channel with trucks and cars facing delays of up to five hours for Eurotunnel shuttles.
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    The ferry workers' leader warned 'there will be a lot of disruption this summer' (Getty)
    One trucker, Alan Overton from Grimsby, told BBC Radio Kent that he had been stuck with a cargo of fish in queues north of Dover since early on 30 June. “At the moment we have enough fuel to keep the refrigerated motors going, but there’ll come a point when that runs out and the load is in jeopardy of being scrapped,” he said. “It’s already smelling.”
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    Visitors to France were at least spared further disruption from French air traffic controllers who called off a second strike in three months in a dispute over bonuses and staffing levels.
    The Prime Minister, David Cameron, called the French President François Hollande to ask for assurances that the ferry dispute would not drag on through the summer and that security in Calais would be tightened to prevent immigrants from storming lorries blocked in queues.
    Traffic through the Channel Tunnel ran normally after a three-hour interruption the day before. A handful of ferry workers penetrated supposedly tough security on 30 June and set fire to piles of tyres on railway lines.
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    Migrants in Calais continue to try boarding lorries bound for the United Kingdom (Getty)
    The ferry workers’ leader, Eric Vercoutre, boasted that the security around the tunnel was so weak that he had been able to enter the high-security area “in flip flops”. Mr Vercoutre is head of the local seamen’s union, Syndicat Maritime Nord. He faces two possible charges in investigations following the collapse in 2012 of the ferry company, Sea France.
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    Channel Tunnel closed again by strike

    Following that collapse, three Sea France ships were bought by Eurotunnel. The ferry crews formed a co-operative to operate the ships under the name My Ferry Link.
    Eurotunnel has decided to lease and then sell two of these ships to another cross-Channel ferry company, DFDS. The third ship will be used by Eurotunnel for freight only.
    Of the 600 jobs at My Ferry Link, only 200 would be saved by DFDS and 100 by the new freight operation. A union legal challenge to the ship sale was rejected by a French court on 29 June, provoking this week’s protests.
    “If a solution isn’t found to save our 600 jobs, there will be a lot of disruption this summer,” Mr Vercoutre said on 30 June. He threatened that the dispute would last at least another two days and that “new actions to block the tunnel” were planned on 2 July.
     
    #27423
  4. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    I will answer for you. Of course the answer is NO I didn't understand when voting that this is what would happen. I got told it was a straight leave or remain, none of this internal political division within the government or back and forth to the EU, votes on leader confidence, backstop issues, etc etc the list is endless. You like us all were made to think it was simple but you didn't understand what it truly entailed. You believed what you were told. As I say, no shame in that.
     
    #27424
  5. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    You need to answer for yourself and stop worrying what I think fella. I made my choice on listening to both sides of the argument. I said on many occassions that I first started off as a remainer and weighed up the pros and cons and changed my mind (with a little help from a few EU ministers). Best decision I made. The more I have looked into the workings of the EU the more I am glad we are leaving. TBH I cannot understand how people can defend that Mafia organisation over their own country.

    If you have a bit of time go back over this thread and you will see that my predictions/views have been consistent and pretty accurate. You will also see a post where I say Italy is in trouble and will go into recession and many responses telling me that I was talking crap... Guess what?

    I will tell you something. If the result had been the other way and lets say remain won by 1 vote, I would have respected the result. I probably would have said "jammy bastards" but would have respected it. It's just a shame that we have people hell bent on trying to derail this process because they couldn't accept the result. We would never have been in the place we are today if they had.
     
    #27425
  6. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    #27426
  7. DT’s Socks

    DT’s Socks Well-Known Member

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    You don’t do project .
    You are incapable to project anything
    Blind
     
    #27427
  8. DT’s Socks

    DT’s Socks Well-Known Member

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    Mafia?
    Sorry you get your **** from **** imo
    Still using the IF scenarios
    Stop it you silly sad lad
    You are self obsessed on Brexit and need help

    Roll on the 29th
    I predict you won’t stop there and I will be waiting to highlight every time you and your blue friends cock up the country
     
    #27428
  9. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

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    Nor stable.
     
    #27429
  10. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

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    May has wrongfooted herself once again. From what I've read her negotiating team in Brussels will not include one arch Brexiteer. The whole purpose of the change of heart by the Brexiteers was that they could put their theory to the test. Tell the Europeans to remove the backstop or No Deal/ They have always had the excuse that it is a Remainer doing the negotiating even though they had people inside the negotiating team who have all resigned on principle ie so that they could snipe from the sides.

    It's so much easier to do that and be wise after the event telling us all that if only she had stood her ground the EU would have caved in and given us what we wanted. Heaven forbid that they should raise their heads above the parapet.

    Frankly, if I was in May's shoes I would have instructed or offered David Davies, Boris Johnson and JRM to come back and be part of her negotiating team because this is all about blame management if the EU really does not budge to the extent that the DUP wants. I would also have made it clear to them at the time that her offer would be leaked to the Press as well as any response even though we can probably guess their natural inclination would be to cobble together any excuse at all to avoid agreeing to do so.
     
    #27430
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  11. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    Maybe Davis shouldn’t have flounced off after getting **** all done as Brexit Secretary for two years.
     
    #27431
  12. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    I cannot understand why they are still using Olly Robbins as he created the plan that was rejected.
    I also notice the Brexitiers are happy and quiet. They obviously know something we don't.
     
    #27432
  13. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate that response Ellers. Good stuff
     
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  14. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Do you lot really think that Robbins is running the show? What a joke.

    I heard that the Government are making preparations for No Deal by stockpiling people to blame.
     
    #27434
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  15. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    I suspect he's there on a continuum basis - he can advise those new in the team what has happened previously
     
    #27435
  16. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    No deal does look increasingly likely now - the backstop would effectively mean than the UK's control over its trading and ability to strike new trade deals would be handed to Ireland. No sovereign nation should do this. I would have thought, given their history, the Irish would be the first to appreciate this.

    Quite interesting looking at things from an EU perspective. The considerations are 1.political and 2. trade. At present, political consideration are to the fore. Macron is faced with gilet jaunes supporters who would ask for Frexit. Merkel is on the way out, but knows her party is facing big challenges from the AfD and rise of popularism which is sceptical about the EU as presently constituted. The prime minister of the Netherlands, likely to be really adversely hit by no-deal, is holding the Brussels line because there are anti-EU forces vocal in his country.

    But as 29 March approaches, I can't help thinking that trade issues will come to the fore. When VW is facing thousands of redundancies, when French farming will take a huge financial hit and Dutch market gardening companies reliant on exports to the UK risk going bust, then businessman will start to have a louder voice than the political idealists.
     
    #27436
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  17. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

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    I hope you are proved correct in all this but we are almost at the end and there has been precious little sign of a U-turn by the EU in any aspect of the negotiations. Brinkmanship is for politicians who know what they are doing and have thought matters through. Every time we've come to a deadline it is the UK which has blinked. You may say that is because TM is a Remainer at heart. Let's not forget that the original cave in over the cost of leaving was signed up to by David Davies and nobody dissented on the Brexit side. I and many others think the reason she backs down when pushed into a corner is that for as much as she blusters and dances to the tune Brexiteers like to sing, she realises that the cost of leaving without a deal is too damaging to the UK too expensive in terms of costs, employment and disruption for any sane leader to contemplate. She stares into the abyss, does not like what she sees and does not see a vision of the future with her remembered as a national heroine. .

    She wants her place in history as the leader who delivered Brexit with the least damage possible. She does not want to be seen in the history books as the leader who lacked vision and principle and thereby failed to take on the minority of arch Brexiteers and the handful of DUP at the expense of her country's future prosperity. As I said earlier, her latest mistake is not including Brexiteers in her negotiating team. She must realise therefore that she will be blamed if we leave without a deal. In case it has been conveniently forgotten the House of Commons also voted to reject a 'NO Deal' outcome. Although that did not bind the government she would be foolish to disregard that mandate given the number of Tories who voted or that amendment.

    As for your point about businesses in France, Germany and the Netherlands becoming more vocal. you may be right. However you have also to factor into that equation that the remaining market place is substantially bigger than when the UK joined in 1973. The damage to those businesses will be nothing like as big as you would like to think because many UK consumers will still want those products even at higher prices. The UK market won't disappear overnight, ie shrink from billions to zero, and I'm sure that there will be substantial price discounts to make those products more affordable for poorer countries in the EU. Of course we won't benefit from those discounts. We will then look very silly indeed if we leave plunge into recession for years to come and watch enviously as our European counterparts weather temporary storm clouds and come out of it fairly quickly.
     
    #27437
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  18. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    May has been a weak negotiator from the beginning. Instead of telling the EU, we're preparing for a no deal but we hope that our negotiations with you lead to a fair deal for all, she went around telling a UK audience that a deal would be struck (Davies was guilty too), while the EU said under it's breath, sure, but we'll make you pay for it. When they came up with the two speed idea of withdrawal first, then new trade deal, May agreed which would take huge pressure off the EU to offer a good trade deal later because they would have been paid the £39bn instead of having to argue for it over a number of years. May's weakness has led to huge dissent in Parliament, and we may go out without a deal.

    The Spelman/Dromey non-binding amendment that passed, expressing an opinion that the House of Commons would prefer to have a deal than not, was hardly a mandate. If it had been legally binding (like the failed Cooper/Boles amendment) I think it would have been voted down. Individual MP's don't want to be held accountable by the electorate for the UK entering the dire May agreement that gives the EU all the power including over our future trading arrangements.

    There's every evidence that a no deal arrangement and high tariffs for, say, car imports would have a huge adverse effect on certain EU countries. Remember, the UK is an incredibly important market for the German car industry, and Germany is already on the edge of recession. Merkel has said she want the UK to look into the abyss of a no deal, but there's every evidence that Germany will be staring into it also, and at that stage, probably the latter half of March, I would expect there would be one last attempt at a deal, with EU trade putting immense pressure on the EU idealists.
     
    #27438
  19. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    has anyone started stockpiling food for the upcoming brexit apocalypse yet
     
    #27439
  20. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    i think he wants another vote
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    #27440

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