The Tory party were whipped to accept the Brady amendment and oppose all the others. Many did so through gritted teeth, after being promised more votes in two week's time. The Tory Remain/Soft Brexit rebels haven't gone away, they are just biding their time.
Agreed, but in all this is the sad fact people that have got on with each other on this forum and the old beeb are now falling out and slagging each other off, me included just because of the way we voted, hopefully we can keep our current dislike for each other to remain on this page and this page only, and when it’s all over maybe we can all get along again and play nice together, after all we are all here for one reason only and that’s because we support our beloved QPR.
It's very easy to play international brinkmanship with people's jobs from behind a keyboard on an internet forum. Here's an interesting thought - the EU won't accept a deal without the backstop. Brexiteers won't accept a deal when the EU have to give their blessing for the UK to leave the backstop. What about if there was a backstop, but instead of the EU having to give the UK permission to leave, the UK had to reach an agreement with Ireland to leave the backstop? Has the advantage of removing power from Brussels but Brussels bring confident the UK can't leave without something Ireland are happy with. Further, Ireland alone would be easier to deal with than EU27 en masse. Obvious downside of Ireland having a lot of power but they do already with a veto in the EU and at least this cuts out 26 others...
I don’t actually think we were weak as such, I think the problem was sending a remainer to do our negotiations, said remainer was only going to try to leave with as much left in as she / he could, almost like having the wife’s solicitor as well during a divorce, unethical and stupid.
Most of the Tory Rebels voted against the government anyway, balanced by about the same number of Labour who voted for it. I cannot see the Tories voting for a Custom's Union. They're more likely to vote for May's original deal, but we know how popular among Tories that was - because the backstop could keep us in the Custom's Union and prevent us entering our own trade agreements
Speaking for myself, I'm happy to express my views face to face with anybody, and do. I don't hide behind a keyboard.
About sums you up a champagne socialist, the Marie Antoinette of our times, the peasants are starving “Then let them eat cake”
right let me try and explain this to you without sounding patronising. Anyone who becomes the longest serving Home secretary in recent years. PM... survives a confidence vote from her own party and then the commons is not weak As for your comment re the ERG? You need to look deeper into this. I actually mentioned this before but you obviously ignored or went down your ill-informed route. May answers to Tory members like me. Many Tory members support the ERG and want a clean break from Europe. So May is actually worried about the members and future seats. She doesn't want to be the one who kills the Tory party but stopping Brexit or not listening to her voters. The ERG are basically the voice for many of us Tory voters. You can either take this on board or not.
My point more being that it's easy to say those things when you have no responsibility for the decision or resulting outcomes. The weight of responsibility the likes of May must face would make it much less easy to be flippant about no deal.
You can say that about any political decision. Blair had responsibility for the Iraq war. Were voters not entitled to hold a view on it, because they have no responsibility for the decision or resulting outcomes? Job security is one factor among a number that must be taken into account in a move to WTO.
Only 7 or 8 Labour MPs, the hard line Brexiters like Hoey, Skinner and Mann, voted for Brady. May had 200 of her own MPs, she would need 116 more MPs prepared to compromise. I suspect this is her actual plan, faff around a bit more, come back in a couple of weeks and say the EU won’t give us anything more, it’s my deal or nothing, get Barnier, Merkel and Junckers to say the same thing, give the House an ultimatum, my deal or no deal, possibly hinting at hardships related to no deal. Very dodgy approach when they are all still playing party and intra party politics, while party loyalty is rapidly disintegrating. No one is taking accountability anywhere. Be interesting to see the turnout at the next election, I’d wager on an historic low unless we have some interesting new entrants, such is the collapse in respect for our political classes.
Take what on board? Did you say something vaguely interesting? It came up on my screen as blah blah blah a man said on the radio blah blah if all else fails slag Corbyn blah blah blah some insult towards anyone who dared vote remain blah blah
Agree entirely! As much as it's easy to berate politicians, they hold significant responsibility. We're entitled to our opinions, of course. Whether those would change if the decision was on our shoulders is the question I was posing.
Brady passed by 317 votes to 301. I don't know the breakdown but the 317 must surely include more than 200 Tory MPs. The DUP have 10. Tory and Labour rebels cancelled themselves out. Going to Strolls point, I see no evidence that the Tories would support a permanent Customs Union. You could well be right about "my deal or nothing". Nothing being WTO rather than no Brexit. If Cooper has another go, it could throw a spanner in the works.
