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Off Topic UK politics and brexit ramblings

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Garlic Klopp, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    Brexit: Jargon-busting guide to the key terms

    No deal
    • A no-deal Brexit would mean the UK leaving the European Union and cutting ties immediately, with no agreement at all in place.
    • If MPs do not approve Theresa May's deal, and there is no alternative deal or move to delay or stop Brexit, the UK will leave with no deal on 29 March.
    • The UK would follow World Trade Organization rules to trade with the EU and other countries, while trying to negotiate free-trade deals.
    WTO rules
    • If countries don't have free-trade agreements, they usually trade with each other under rules set by the World Trade Organization.
    • Each country sets tariffs - or taxes - on goods entering. For example, cars passing from non-EU countries to the EU are charged 10% of their value. But tariffs on some agricultural products are much higher - dairy averages more than 35%.
    • If the UK chooses to put no tariffs on goods from the EU, it must also have no tariffs on goods from every WTO member.
    Reality Check: What does a 'WTO Brexit' mean? (August 2018)

    Transition period
    • If Theresa May's deal was accepted, this period would last 21 months from Brexit day, on 29 March 2019, to 31 December 2020. It could be extended by up to two years if both the UK and the EU wanted.
    • The transition is intended to allow time for the UK and EU to agree their future relationship.
    • The UK would have no say in the making of new EU laws during the transition but would have to follow all EU rules, including freedom of movement.
    Article 50
    • Part of an EU treaty that sets out how member countries can leave, with a two-year timetable for leaving.
    • Article 50 was triggered by Prime Minister Theresa May at the end of March 2017 and means the UK will leave the EU at the end of March 2019.
    • The UK is allowed to stop the Article 50 process completely - but if it wants only to extend it, all the other EU countries must agree.
    Another referendum
    • Some campaigners - who call their proposal the People's Vote - want to have another referendum on the UK's membership of the EU.
    • It has been suggested the vote could have three options - Theresa May's deal, no deal and Remain. But some campaigners think there should only be two choices.
    • Opponents of another vote say there is no need for it as the 2016 referendum made it clear that people wanted to leave the EU.
    How could another Brexit referendum work? (December 2018)

    Single market
    • A system that enables goods, services, people and capital (money) to move between all 28 EU member states, as well as Iceland, Norway, Liechtenstein and Switzerland.
    • Countries in the single market apply many common rules and standards.
    • A UK company can sell its product (goods) in Portugal as easily as it can in Portsmouth, bring back the cash (capital), offer maintenance (services) and despatch a repair team (people).
    Brexit Basics: The single market explained (December 2018)

    Customs union
    • A trade agreement under which two or more countries do not put tariffs (taxes) on goods coming in from other countries in the union.
    • The countries also decide to set the same tariff on goods entering from outside the union.
    • The EU customs union includes EU member states and some small non-EU members and forbids members from negotiating trade agreements separately from the EU.
    Brexits Basics: The customs union explained (November 2018)

    Free-trade agreement
    • A deal between countries to reduce, but not necessarily eliminate, trade barriers.
    • These barriers include import or export taxes (tariffs), quotas or licences that limit imports, and differing regulations on things such as safety or hygiene or labelling.
    • The aim is increase trade in goods but also services.
    Brexit Basics: Free trade agreements explained (November 2018)

    Withdrawal agreement
    • Theresa May has agreed a deal with the EU on the terms of the UK's departure. It does not determine the UK-EU future relationship.
    • It does include how much money the UK must pay to the EU as a settlement, details of the transition period, and citizens' rights.
    • It also covers the so-called "backstop", which ensures that no hard border exists between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after Brexit even if there's no deal on the future relationship in place by the end of the transition period.
    The withdrawal agreement - what it all means (November 2018)

    Backstop
    • Currently, there are no border posts, physical barriers or checks on people or goods crossing the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
    • The backstop is a measure in the withdrawal agreement designed to ensure that continues after the UK leaves the EU. It comes into effect only if the deal deciding the future relationship between the UK and EU is not agreed by the end of the transition period (31 December 2020).
    • Until the deal on the future relationship is done, the backstop would keep the UK effectively inside the EU's customs union but with Northern Ireland also conforming to some rules of the single market. Critics say a different status for Northern Ireland could threaten the existence of the United Kingdom and fear that the backstop could become permanent.
    Q&A: The Irish border Brexit backstop (December 2018)

    Free movement
    • One of the four freedoms associated with the single market is free movement of people.
    • This lets EU citizens travel, live, study and work in any member country.
    • There can be no discrimination in access to public services and benefits.
    Divorce bill
    • The money the UK has agreed to pay to the EU under Theresa May's deal.
    • Based on UK's share of EU budgets up to 2020 as well as continuing liabilities such as EU civil servants' pensions
    • The bill is widely expected to be about £39bn and will be paid over a number of years, with about half of it during the transition.
    More on Brexit:
    Brexit: All you need to know

    Brexit timeline: Leaving the EU



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43470987
     
    #441
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  2. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    backstop won't be removed.

    the reality of the 230 vote defeat is that labour and libtards and SNP all lines up as disciplined parties all voting no to deal for own self interests and have now cost the coutnry huge amount of money already

    The tories rebelling should have been countered by the same amount of poepel not wanting no deal and cutting their votes off the park.
     
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  3. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    OR you might say

    Her deal on 29th march (need to actually be a month earlier to give EU time to ratify)

    No deal on 29th March and a REAL meltdown

    No brexit is only after an extension of article 50 and a new referendum. you say a meltdown but the reality is we are talking about respect the 17.4 million people but the 16.1 million who voted remain are not respected and 28% of those who could vote didn't bother... so any result theres a sizeable number of people very unhappy here. we are i n the sort of #melt you are talking already and have been.

    Finally... "new deal" is not completely off table but would require extension and a new government as may won't deliver one.


    It won't be her deal if there is extension.
     
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  4. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
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    You really think exiters will take no brexit lying down?

    You say whatever the outcome there will be unhappy people (I don't deny this, there will), but there is a difference of having a vote and following the outcome to having a vote and backtracking.

    It's a ****ing **** position that we should never have been in. Brexit was rushed to begin with, people voted a false information and it's landed is in a **** show.




    Wonder how many remainers will hold their hands up should we leave and things turn out better... (not saying they will or won't)




    I didn't vote in the referendum because I didn't feel I knew enough about it, I still don't! Only thing I'm bothered about is my mortgage renewal on 29 April!!!
     
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  5. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    do you really think that remainders are taking brexit lying down? we are where we are cos they have not. Its clear may went to people asking for large majority to drive through brexit and she ended up with no majority. Now that parliament is hung and nobody can even deliver a deal.

    My view on second vote would be it must be a different question and giving peoepl right to decide based on the deal.

    People have not done nothing. Now a deal is on table and parliamnet cannot decide. So... really it depends on what you put to people. May's deal (this is a falicy btw its the uk/eu agreed withdrawl deal that uk parliament wont back) V no deal OR do you put May's deal v remain.

    BTW... if you pose a question and people reaffirm leave based on the 2 years of negotiations then its clear.
     
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  6. carlthejackal

    carlthejackal Well-Known Member

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    A lot has been and is being made about the will of the people being thwarted and how it would be a catastrophic breach of democracy and how our democracy will be forever damaged. Ridiculous and totally over the top by people who are desperate to get their own way.

    First, many people now recognise that many aspects of that 2016 referendum were flawed. Unlawful amounts spent by the Leave camp, Lies telling people that it will be easy to leave and that we will save huge amounts of money, millions of Turkish people ready to move in, trading will carry on (germans will want to sell cars to us etc) and we will have immediate trade deals with the rest of the world. Yes, the remain camp also lied but not to the same extent.

    Second, how is not leaving exactly on 29th March and instead in 3 or 6 months say 29th June, a catastrophic breach of trust and democracy? Like Liam Fox said. When the people voted did they vote to leave on that sacred date?

    Third, why should the views of the UK population in March 2019 not be taken into account? If there are enough reasons to suspect that Brexit will be economically detrimental (and there are with many firms moving out) AND a vast majority of the CURRENT population don't want to Brexit (the people with more youngsters and fewer seniors) why is that undemocratic?

    My view is that this so called population uproar at having a second referendum is totally overblown. Except for the extremists, people will recognise we are in an impossible situation.

    AND

    I didn't vote in the referendum because I didn't feel I knew enough about it, I still don't! !!!

    This hits the nail on the head. Many people have said that the issue was too complex (as it has now been shown). to reduce it to a simple yes or no vote, with most people not aware of the complexities and the details, it was not an appropriate vote to put to the people especially in only 3-4 months, with no independent expertise to rely on. When experts provided their views, they were lambasted by the Leavers as project fear and one said memorably "we've had enough of experts".
     
    #446
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
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  7. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    The boss of Airbus has warned it could shift wing production from the UK in future in the event of hard Brexit "madness".
    In a company video, Tom Enders said that "potentially very harmful decisions" were ahead without a smooth divorce from the EU.

    He described the failure of politicians to achieve clarity on the issue to date as a "disgrace
     
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  8. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    I also note that a lot of companies are move what could be described as name plate european headquarters. I beleive sony have just done so.

    They have no plans to move the uk staff they say.

    My question would be:

    how much european revenue was being funnelled through there and how much tax revenue is HMT losing out on already?
     
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  9. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    They'll say they have no plans until the moment the plans are finalised.

    Airbus have just said 9000 jobs are at risk: "Please don't listen to the Brexiteers' madness which asserts that, because we have huge plants here, we will not move and we will always be here. They are wrong. And make no mistake, there are plenty of countries out there who would love to build the wings for Airbus aircraft."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46984229
     
    #449
  10. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    HSBC has moved their International Head Office out of Britain too. Any politician listening?.
     
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  11. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    All financial services will leave soon.

    Good job the conservatives didn't spend the last decade crippling investment in industry and education while using taxpayer money to prop up banker bonuses.

    Oh, wait...
     
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  12. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    nah they won't all leave. they will simply diversify and move services needing to move to eu hqs

    there's no reason to leave the stock market nor a global financial hub until it's no longer a global hub.

    now services that can be offered globally from UK might get hurt a bit as they are not in eu but it is hard to just set up again.


    I've been to Frankfurt. it's bloody tiny really. (1mil people?) and it's incredibly expensive.in all the surrounding cities to live. So.... only so much capacity there.

    Paris... yellow vests... and it's a **** hole full of french people.

    this is why many seem to be going to Holland.
     
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  13. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    #453
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  14. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    #454
  15. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

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  16. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    Needs a #poll
     
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  17. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    Voted once already.
     
    #457
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  18. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    just a piece of salient advice.

    A Yorkshire man told.me this once. big yeah, was a union man from the mines.


    Protect the status quo.

    in short if you are asked to vote on something and you don't know about it then vote to not change.

    it was the yes campaign's job to explain this very basic issue.

    72% voted in the Brexit referendum. I'm sure a sizable proportion of yes and no side didn't know what they were really voting for and some will have decided to change their minds either way...

    So next time you are presented with a choice... think... hmmmm why would I change what is there now, then vote yes if you've a good reason to change and no if you have not..

    In Brexit the leave side used many tactics including populist slogans and the sheer action orientated way leave was sold. BREXIT...taking back our country blah blah blah save the by a etc etc.

    the remainers were limp dicked. theyd no such catchy slogan.

    anyway..... that's how I now view that bit of headline union education I got years back, protect the status quo in all negotiations.
     
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  19. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    i see that the Irish must be under pressure.

    their prime minister has come put talking about soldiers on the border... must be trying to stoke up some.panic to try and prove a hard border equals war.

    the eu must be leaning on them hard now
     
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  20. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    What? All 7 of them lol...
     
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