Very critical No Confidence vote tomorrow now. Does Parliament have the appetite for a General Election with about 10 weeks to Brexit deadline day? Such would be a recipe for utter chaos. Feelings are running so high now due to the tawdry mismanagement of this whole business for the last couple of years, I wouldn't be surprised if there are outbreaks of violence during campaigning. Lives might even be lost. I think the Government will survive the No Confidence vote - just.
The political landscape is being rewritten. Who knows how it will turn out. I would like to think that cool heads will prevail, but it doesn't look that way atm.
I haven't seen much sign of cool heads, or common sense for that matter. I can't see too many conservatives voting against their government in a no confidence vote, and the DUP have said they will back the government. The problem is there is no version of Brexit that commands a majority. I don't know if they outnumber remain in the houses of parliament, but there has to be a plan, and every clause that some brexiteers like, excludes others. Predictable enough twelve months ago, May chose to plough ahead and ignore everyone. Is her plan B to push the UK off a no deal cliff? Madness if so, but not beyond belief.
Keeping a cool head is always the better way. Unfortuntely there's nothing that gets the blood boiling for many people as much as betrayal. In my view anything Parliament does which means that Britain does not leave the EU on March 29th is a betrayal of the will of the people. Our politicians have had long enough. If negotiations with the EU have failed because Brussels was not acting in good faith (and why should they) then we should have been told that. Leaving the EU was never conditional on getting a "deal". It was remain or leave - not remain or leave but only if Brussels will let us. And this 'People's Vote' is nothing more than Tony Blair's cynical fantasy. The people have already voted Tony. Back in the summer of 2016 when you were no doubt sunning yourself on holiday somewhere. Our politicians have two choices now. Deliver Brexit or betray the trust placed in them. Honour the referendum result or show the electorate that democracy in this country is a sham - something to simply be ignored when inconvenient to the establishment, as is the reality in so much of the rest of the world.
I think I read somewhere that Parliament is about 80% remain. From their point of view David Cameron's decision to use the promise of a referendum to win a general election was not far behind what Guy Fawkes tried to do in 1605 - in spirit at least. I must admit I never thought Cameron would actually deliver on his promise. I expected him to just concoct a reason to kick it into the long grass, like all Prime Minsters have done for generations with the matter of reform of the House of Lords. How many times has that been promised but never delivered?
I make you wrong there Lardi. There are supposedly 25 Tory MP's against Brexit, which suggests the rest are Brexiteers,plus the DUP, which gets them up to around 48%. The problem is a fair percentage want a Brexit that vagurly leaves Britain near the levels it is at now. That means agreement. Then there are morons like Boris Johnson who think the UK can just waltz back to the state of affairs of 1912, and if the EU don't like it they can jolly well lump it. The funny thing is the fear of Brexiteers to go back ask the Btitish people what sort of Brexit they want, in case the slim majority of voters has gone. I just caught CNN discussing this, and the general view was there is no majority even cross party, to even have a common set of demands to take to the EU.
I’m afraid you are wrong Ken. My first job in Westminster was in 1986. Since then, the fundamental problem has been a Parliament of largely Remain / Pro EU MPs - of both parties, that does not reflect the Leave / Euro Sceptic views of certainly much of England. I know this for a fact because I have seen at first hand many of our Pro EU MPs doorstep interactions with their anti EU constituents. Many of these people - who really have done absolutely fvck all in their lives apart from politics (Andy Burnham being a great example), really do think that they know better than the little people.
There is no good solution to the impasse. As Not606's arch remoaner I see things rather differently from the rest of you, but still can't see a positive outcome.
Like a lot of stuff, each person reacts for different reasons, but i imagine a lot of Remain MP's are unwilling to vote in favor of a bill which will cause chaos and mass destruction of jobs and social services. But as I said, the problem is the Brexit MP's are horribly split about what they actually want. The DUP want Brexit, but voted against Teresa May last night, and a lot of hard Brexiteers did the same.If they cannot agree with waht they want, it suggests there is not the faintest possibility of delivering 'what the public wants', to use the phrase Teresa May hides behind. I get to hear the same sort of rhestoric in Catalunya, in fact the cases are identical. A hysterical press campaigning ruthlessly to blame any mishap on a third party, and a band of flag waving hectoring politicians hurling populist and often flagrantly untrue statements about. No policies, no order, not even a real objective about what is wanted, just a sad denial about the possible consequences and demands that the will of the people be carried out (in Catalunya, an illegal referendum in which the nationalists persuaded around 35% of the population to vote for independence, while in the UK a non binding referendum with slightly better overall numbers but certainly not half the electorate, which now is paraded as a parliamentary obligation). Many MP's have indeed done little all their lives, but Gove and Johnson are bent on achieving an almost criminal damage to the UK purely to further their own political ends.
The whole sorry business, and the chaos in other parts of the world, is a demonstration of how the human race is collectively sticking two fingers up to the scientists who continue to give us facts which we don't like on environmental issues. The EU debate pales into insignificance by comparison.
Sadly true FHB. The general opinion about the environment seems to be it's a shame we are trashing it, and really something needs doing, but only if I personally don't have to change any single thing in my life. That's to ignore the serial lunatics like Trump, who can genuinely utter statements like 'good clean coal' when discussing energy needs for the USA.
We must stop fiddling over this while the country burns because of all the other crucial matters which are being neglected. On March 29th we are either staying in the EU or we are out. If the country stays in, so be it. At least the whole matter is resolved. But we should all be clear that in future the UK will never again try to leave the EU. No more referenda ever, and Brussels should scrap article 50, which is clearly a sham. All nations should be crystal clear on this - You don't get a choice. Once in, never out. On the other hand if we are out we should be out. No more money to Brussels. No more EU laws of any kind imposed on this country. Complete freedom to negotiate new trade and other deals, not try poor copies of the way Norway does it, or anybody else. For pity's sake! No more fudging. No more Project Fear No more half-in and half-out compromises. The country needs to know where it stands, as do the International markets. Uncertainty is the worst option of all, and an open ended 'transition period' will only make uncertainty worse, as well as keep our government distracted from other crucial business while the country slides down the toilet.
Politicians who try to control greenhouse gas emissions are given short shrift by the electorate. The will of the people is to exploit every ounce of fossil fuel available anywhere.
Leaving on WTO terms is not the end of the world as we know it. Trepidation of it has been heightened by the BBC using phrases like "crashing out on WTO terms"...Mishal Hussein on Today was rightly chastised this morning for using that phrase. What WTO does mean is between 3-6 months of turbulence for Joe Public while the UK economy rebalances. The big unknown is how Joe Public will react the first time they go to Tescos after No Deal, and some of the shelves look fairly empty.
J R-M said on LBC yesterday that prices would come down under WTO terms. Michael Gove said prices will go up. As my Dad told me 55 years ago, people like politicians who lie, that's why we keep electing them. The whole debate has become so tribal now that most interviews are so slanted, with the same soundbites being repeated ad nauseam, that there is nothing to be learned any more.
I'll leave it there for now on this subject. This evening's no-confidence vote in the Government will doubtless give us more to chat about tomorrow.
I doubt it to be honest. Corbyn is wasting time with this. May could try for a cross party policy on this (she should have done it a year ago) as unless some sort of agreement is reached this just rolls on. They could throw it back to the people, but I'm really how much of this most of us understand.
