1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

?

Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    115,943
    Likes Received:
    232,011
    please log in to view this image

    The People’s Vote campaign was left humiliated this afternoon after the overwhelmingly City of London Corporation has voted against agitating for a second referendum by two to one. Just 31 of the 100 Court of Common Council members voted for the motion, with 60 voting against it after what was described as “substantive debate.” If Remainers can’t even win in the City of London, a remainer stronghold, where can they?
     
    #26241
    GoldhawkRoad likes this.
  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    115,943
    Likes Received:
    232,011
    Brexit: Jeremy Corbyn demands election to 'break deadlock'
      • please log in to view this image
    Jeremy Corbyn calls for a general election: “This political chaos cannot go on."
    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has stepped up calls for a general election "at the earliest opportunity" to "break the deadlock" over Brexit.
    In a speech, he said a new government would have a fresh mandate to negotiate a better withdrawal deal with the EU.
    He told Theresa May: "If you are so confident in your deal, call that election, and let the people decide."
    The Conservatives said Labour did not have a plan for Brexit and were "playing politics".
    Mr Corbyn has resisted growing calls from within his own party to get behind another EU referendum, insisting an election is still his top priority if Theresa May's Brexit deal is rejected by MPs next week.
    The UK is set to leave the European Union on 29 March. The withdrawal agreement between the UK and EU - covering things like trade, expat citizens' rights and setting up a 20-month transition period - will only come into force if MPs back it in a vote.
    Labour is set to vote against Mrs May's deal next Tuesday and if, as widely expected, it is defeated, they are expected to start moves to trigger a general election.
    Asked if this would happen immediately, Mr Corbyn said Labour would "table a motion of no confidence in the government at the moment we judge it to have the best chance of success".
    If a majority of MPs back a no confidence motion, the government will get 14 days to try and win another confidence vote - if it can't do that, a general election will be held.
    Mr Corbyn said: "Clearly, Labour does not have enough MPs in parliament to win a confidence vote on its own. So members across the House should vote with us to break the deadlock."
    please log in to view this image

    Theresa May has met Leave-supporting Labour MPs
    Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party, which is also against Mrs May's deal, has said it will back her in any confidence vote.
    As debate on the Brexit deal resumed in the House of Commons for the second of five days, it emerged that some of Mr Corbyn's Leave-supporting backbench MPs have been speaking to Theresa May about backing her deal if she can guarantee environmental standards and rights for workers.
    But Mr Corbyn said Labour did not "endorse or accept" a reported offer from the government to adopt an amendment to protect workplace and environmental rights.
    "It's already been quite clearly and emphatically rejected by the TUC and leading trade unions. They say it simply doesn't guarantee the protections that we are seeking."
    Theresa May has, meanwhile, reached out to union leaders to seek their backing for her deal, it has emerged.
    The prime minister made telephone calls to Len McCluskey, general secretary of Labour's biggest financial backer Unite, and GMB leader Tim Roache.
    Mr Roache said: "As you would expect, I was very clear about GMB's position - the deal on the table isn't good enough and non-binding assurances on workers' rights won't cut it."
    please log in to view this image

    please log in to view this image

    Labour MPs on the anti-Brexit side of the party are calling on Mr Corbyn to get behind the campaign for a new EU referendum - something polls suggest is supported by the majority of Labour members.
    Mr Corbyn has said his preferred option is to trigger a general election and, having won it, seek to delay Brexit in order to negotiate a better deal with Brussels, which he says would see the UK in a permanent customs union with the EU and with a close relationship with the single market.
    This policy, together with a "radical" Labour government would kick start economic growth, and "allow a renaissance in our manufacturing sector, which will create good, secure jobs and help restore pride and prosperity to parts of our country that have been ignored for too long", he argued.
    If Labour is not able to get a general election, Mr Corbyn said all options were "on the table, including the option of campaigning for a public vote".
    Asked if a fresh referendum would be in Labour's election manifesto, he said: "Our policy would be to negotiate urgently with the EU as and when we take office, but clearly a general election must come first in order to do that.
    Need some guidance?
    please log in to view this image
    Image copyright Getty Images
    If you feel like you ought to know more about Brexit...
    "Policy-making is made by the Labour Party in a democratic form and that policy will be put together and put into a manifesto in any election that's coming up."
    He said he understood the concerns of younger voters, who polls suggest overwhelmingly backed another referendum on staying in the EU, but he also understood those who had voted to leave the EU and he wanted to bring the country together.
    In a speech to Labour activists at an electrical products manufacturer in Wakefield, West Yorkshire, Mr Corbyn said Theresa May would forfeit the right to govern if she cannot get her Brexit deal through the Commons.
    "A government that cannot get its business through the Commons is no government at all. It has lost its mandate so must go to the country to seek another."
    Mr Corbyn vowed to heal the divide between Leave and Remain voters, saying the "real divide" in the UK was between the "many" who "do the work, create the wealth and pay taxes" and the "few" who "set the rules, reap the rewards and so often dodge taxes".
    He said: "The real solution is to transform Britain to work in the interests of the vast majority, by challenging the entrenched power of a privileged elite.
    "That is how we can help to heal the referendum's deep divisions."
    The government has lost two Brexit votes in two days. The first defeat limits the government's financial powers in the event of a no-deal departure. The second forces the PM to announce new plans within three days if her deal fails in the Commons.
    Conservative Party chairman Brandon Lewis, said: "Labour simply do not have a plan for Brexit. Instead they are arguing in public about whether to frustrate the decision of the British people and rerun the referendum."
    The cross-party People's Vote campaign for another referendum, which is backed by about 30 Labour MPs, also criticised Mr Corbyn's speech.
    Campaign supporter and Green MEP Molly Scott Cato said: "Many Labour MPs, not to mention the party's voters and members, will be horrified by the prospect that their party leader is still proposing to fight the next election as a supporter of Brexit."
    Plaid Cymru MP Jonathan Edwards, another People's Vote supporter, said: "An election in which both Labour and Conservative Brexit policies are almost indistinguishable will solve nothing
     
    #26242
  3. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,847
    Likes Received:
    2,854
    That's easy. 3 weeks in the context of 21 months so far is more than reasonable. After all they did think though and come up with a number of acceptable options. Well didn't they?

    Except I do need to correct your assertion that 'we all voted to preserve the sovereignty of the UK parliament didn't we.' Not as I remember it. When it came to allowing Parliament to have a final vote - then I recall (it wasn't that long ago) our Brexit government took it all the way to total humiliation in the Supreme Court to deny that Brexit had anything at all to do with Parliament. It was a matter for the Executive. At that time, the whole of the Brexit side wanted nothing more than to ride roughshod over the sovereignty of the UK parliament. A fascinating display of ignorance of the Constitutional legal position at the time.

    Operation Fear kicked in - Labour couldn't be trusted to support the Article 50 bill. Well they got that one spectacularly wrong. A bit of a pattern. From a party that has always prided itself for being strong stable and prudent. It's a pity that TM did not show more statesmanship at the time. She wouldn't have then tied herself up in knots or bankrupted the country for the votes of 11 Irish nutters. Having done so she should have drawn a tighter bargain. All that money deserves a bit more by way of quid pro quo than having received the dosh, we can then decide whether to support you when it comes to the crunch. At the very least they should have ensured that the Ulster Unionists followed the Conservative whip on all matters for the duration of this parliamentary term

    What chance did we have in the negotiations with the EU when all they have had to do is stand back and wait repeatedly for the UK position to clarify then unravel and retrench, clarify, unravel and retrench down to the squeaky bum moment, In the process making our bargaining position and credibility weaker by the minute and by each press announcement from some piss artist within government or the wider Tory party.

    Mind you, I for one would have loved it to be taken down to the last day, hour or minute. Still waiting for the promised EU implosion (which has been announced each day on this thread with some glee because of some development on the mainland. But for now all I have seen today is that Jaguar have decide to open 2 new state of the art factories on the Continent while announcing a potential 5000 redundancies across the UK business - admittedly fears over the direction of Brexit were only one of 3 factors in that decision. Still that's alright. We can always put that one down to Operation Fear. It seems that it does not matter who voices doubts or how independent of the government their business are They've been put up to it by some malign conspirators in the Remain camp. They have never reached a rational informed decision based on economic principles, phenomena and analysis.

    It seems that if it is not a decision based on patriotism alone it's not true or worth the paper it is written on. Oh well they can join the lists of those who can be persuaded by other means of the consequences of denying the will of the people
     
    #26243
  4. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,847
    Likes Received:
    2,854
    What's wrong with that? Isn't that what this country is crying out for - a bit of entrepreneurial spirit to make money quickly, reduce the entrepreneurs' tax burden and freedom from stifling buraucratic laws. Maggie would have knighted them.

    After all what comes first? The interests of the taxpayer or the interest of the country as a whole to pay for the necessary investment in infrastructure and staffing levels across all public services including the Immigration service, police criminal justice system, and armed forces to ensure we can prevent this happening.

    Did Nigel make any suggestions in that regard. Let me know when you find the answer. You failed miserably the last time I set you some homework!
     
    #26244
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
    kiwiqpr likes this.
  5. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    115,943
    Likes Received:
    232,011
    Brexit: Japan's PM says 'wish of whole world' to avoid no-deal
    please log in to view this image

    Image caption UK Prime Minister Theresa May and Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe give a joint press conference
    The "whole world" wants the UK to avoid a no-deal Brexit, Japan's prime minister has claimed.
    Speaking at a joint press conference with Theresa May, Shinzo Abe pledged his "total support" to the withdrawal agreement she has negotiated, which MPs will vote on next Tuesday.
    Mrs May said leaving the EU provided "an unprecedented opportunity" for the countries to strengthen relations.
    It comes as Honda UK announced a six-day post Brexit shut down.
    The Japanese-owned car giant said the move was to ensure it could adjust to "all possible outcomes caused by logistics and border issues".
    Mrs May and Mr Abe pledged to build on the trade agreement between Japan and the EU to secure an "ambitious bilateral arrangement" between the two nations after Brexit, as well as to increase investment.
    Mr Abe said: "It is the strong will of Japan to further develop this strong partnership with the UK, to invest more into your country and to enjoy further economic growth with the UK.
    "That is why we truly hope that a no-deal Brexit will be avoided, and in fact that is the whole wish of the whole world.
    "Japan is in total support of the draft withdrawal agreement worked out between the EU and Prime Minister May, which provides for a transition to ensure legal stability for businesses that have invested into this country."
    Mrs May repeated her call to MPs to support her plan, saying: "The only way to avoid no deal is to have a deal and to agree a deal, and the deal that is on the table, the deal that is the deal that the EU has made clear, is the only deal."
    Labour MP Martin Whitfield, a supporter of the Best for Britain campaign for another referendum, said: "It is humiliating for the prime minster to be told to her face that the whole world wants to avoid a no-deal scenario, yet she still refuses to rule it out.
    "Countries across the globe are looking at Britain in despair. Japan, like our other allies, understands the folly of a no-deal Brexit. Why doesn't Theresa May?"
    Trade between the UK and Japan hit £28bn last year, and Japanese companies already employ 150,000 people in the UK.
    Skip Twitter post by @BBCPolitics
    Report
    End of Twitter post by @BBCPolitics
    please log in to view this image

    During their meeting in Downing Street, Mrs May and Mr Abe also discussed a number of joint projects, including research around chronic conditions such as dementia and heart failure, the increasing use of big data and artificial intelligence, and environmentally friendly growth.
    They also made commitments on security - such as the UK deploying the Royal Navy warship HMS Montrose to the region to enforce sanctions against North Korea.
    And as part of a cultural exchange, the National Gallery will send a major exhibition to Japan, including the Sunflowers painting by Vincent Van Gogh.
     
    #26245
  6. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    35,545
    Likes Received:
    27,936
  7. You make a great point about the DUP which I haven't seen many others pick up on. It's not exactly a "you scratch our backs we'll scratch yours" relationship is it. More should really be made of this tbh.
     
    #26247
    DT’s Socks likes this.
  8. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    22,077
    Likes Received:
    17,901
  9. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    24,533
    Likes Received:
    23,948
    #26249
  10. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Bercow has (1) broken the procedural rules against the advice of his clerks creating a dangerous precedent for future speakers, and (2) has shown himself not to be impartial. That's like a referee stating before he blows the whistle to start a Cardiff v Man City match that he wants Man City to win. It damages that referee, and it damages all referees.

    It looks as though Bollocks-to-Brexit-Bercow will now try to take it on himself to frustrate an elected government over Brexit, despite the fact that he, like the bureaucrats in Brussels, haven't been voted in. He's giving himself more powers than the Queen. This kind of scullduggery is truly shocking in my opinion.
     
    #26250

  11. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    He's meant to be impartial. He isn't voted into office by the public.
     
    #26251
    ELLERS likes this.
  12. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Government was voted into office. Parliament was not. Parliament should scrutinise. An unelected, biased speaker should not give Parliament governmental powers.

    Leaving all that aside, Parliament can't agree on anything anyway. Polls show strongly that a second referendum would achieve nothing that we don't have already, and would simply lead to deep distrust of democracy in the country. Go for a managed WTO. The EU finances are in a parlous state, and Germany is on the edge of a recession due to its heavy reliance on manufacturing. We'd get a good deal from them.

    May will lose her vote next week. I hope she goes and is replaced by someone with some strength in dealing with the EU. (I'm struggling to think who, but my preference would be Hunt as PM, and Raab as Brexit minister with a brief to be much more hardnosed). Corbyn will bleat about another general election which polls show the public don't want and Corbyn would lose again anyway. He's six points behind at the moment and there's no enthusiasm from Labour apart for the front bench for another election.
     
    #26252
  13. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Genuine question. What happened to free breakfasts at school brought in by the Coalition? And I thought the state provided lunch at school for state schools.

    That said, if a child turned up to school with no food in their lunch box, I'd go down to the pub and find their parents. Food for your child surely comes before anything else in life. Where is the benefits money going?
     
    #26253
  14. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    24,533
    Likes Received:
    23,948
    That's utter bollocks Goldie, if you'll pardon my use of the word of the moment. If he's taken sides, it's the side over Parliament over the Executive, which is wholly proper. What is truly shocking to me is the way that May (whom, don't forget, the public decided should not have an overall majority) has acted in contempt of Parliament. Bercow doesn't have more powers than the Queen, but Parliament should have.
     
    #26254
    QPR Oslo likes this.
  15. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    You know very well Strolls, that what Bercow is interested in doing is stopping Brexit, and if he has to break precedent and go against the advice of his clerks (and then refuse to share that advice) he'll do so. Parliament is there to scrutinise and it can make recommendations. It has been scrutinising but its input has been wholly negative because it can't agree on anything. Bercow must not stand in the way of Government delivering Brexit.
     
    #26255
    ELLERS likes this.
  16. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    24,533
    Likes Received:
    23,948
    As that great Tory parliamentarian 'Sir' Christopher Chope acknowledged, it was Bercow going against convention in 2013 by allowing an extra amendment to the Queen's Speech, that paved the way for the EU referendum in the first place. Bercow isn't standing in the way of the Government delivering Brexit, it's its own incompetence.
     
    #26256
    YorkshireHoopster and QPR Oslo like this.
  17. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    22,077
    Likes Received:
    17,901
    According to a quick google, only those from Reception to Year 2 will get free meals

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28981684

    Think the article stated families (especially those on UC and i'm assuming haven't been paid) are using food banks and i'm guessing it's not necessarily a daily thing (going through the bins) but something that is happening.
     
    #26257
    ELLERS and GoldhawkRoad like this.
  18. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    #26258
  19. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    And what do replace it with? Corbyn...<laugh> Stop talking rubbish. doesn't matter what government is in people will still struggle. Heard plenty of stories under a Labour government. You could also throw in a war with Iraq as well.
    Hang on I didn't vote for that! it wasn't in their manifesto! Liars! Let's have another vote! ...Oh yes we were not allowed.
     
    #26259
  20. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    Propaganda Goldie. They take the worst case possible, spin it, blow it out of all proportions, spin it again and give it to wait for it... The BBC. <doh>
     
    #26260
    Goldhawk-Road likes this.

Share This Page