The issue here is that Targett, once forward, can't get back. The same would be true of most full backs asked to play in the wing back role, but most of them are actually quick so is not quite as noticeable. Targett is slow and Lemina isn't a DM so isn't disciplined to cover the space left when Targett goes forward. If only 1 CM is going to drop in when a full back goes then you need the whole team in sync for it to work. IE if Targett goes then Valery doesn't and sits back, the team shifts slightly across to cover the space left by Targett. Romeu goes across and the CBs move across. It takes a lot of work for this to be done almost automatically so I am not expecting this to be the norm now, so it is better to play 2 defensive minded mids if we are playing with wing backs atm so each can cover for either full back.
PEH has been commanding for much of the season. Romeu looks re-born under Hutt. Lemina has got skillzzzzzz and loves a big game against the top 6 but vanishes from the other 30+ games he plays. Ergo PEH and Romeu are going to be the new Schneiderlin/wanyama for us this season and I'm thinking 30m from PSG might not be a bad option. Harrison Reed is a ready made replacement and would improve us significantly in that we'd get top effort every game.
Interesting you see him that way. If he’s going to be a playmaker, then imo he needs to be a lot quicker in his decision making. He dwells on the ball far too often for my liking. He has skills though, and he does seem to look for the attacking options, so maybe.
Playing three CBs is countered by the opposition pushing their fullbacks very high and very wide. This draws our midfielders out wide to help cover Valery and Targett but they get there too slowly so our fullbacks are overrun anyway. This then leaves gaping holes in our own midfield so it’s easy for them to recycle the ball and have even more space. It works with energetic midfielders like Højbjerg but Romeu struggles as does Lemina when not paired with Højbjerg.
Curiously I think the opposite. On his day he has the ability to own players like Pogba in midfield. I love his ability to rob opposition players and to turn or wriggle out of challenges but he seldom creates anything out of it. Boufal also has skill to burn.... maybe its us, maybe we dont deserve their talent.
I think Vestergaard and Bednarek both did a pretty good job covering for the two FBs tonight. Valery looked a lot less exposed than he did against Cardiff, where he had to be subbed at HT. Not sure either Bertie or Cedric walk straight back into this side, though you could certainly argue that we miss the pace of both.
Ideally though you don't want your CBs being dragged out to fill the full back positions. Because a) you want them centrally and if they aren't it could leave you stretched at the back b) you want to be covering the full backs pretty high up the pitch where you don't really want your CB to be and c) simply that you don't want a PL level wide player going one on one with a CB, would usually end in disaster. That is where you want those midfielders moving across so you keep solid at the back with 3. It just means that without having the discipline either trained into the team (which takes time) or 2 defensive minded midfielders you can easily be over run in the middle by it getting stretched. It is why I don't think Lemina really fits into this system and wouldn't surprise me if he is moved on, even though I think he is probably our best CM overall.
Maybe. But I think if we were getting pulled all over the place at times ( and it certainly wasn’t all the time), it wasn’t down to us playing 3 CBs, or to our FBs lacking pace; West Ham as a unit were quicker, sharper, passed better, and had better movement than us. That could be because they were better drilled, or because they have more quality all over the pitch. But partly I think it’s because both Romeu and Lemina are just a fraction slow in their decision making. But I wouldn’t dismiss either of them just yet.
I'd be more than half-tempted to recall McQueen (who isn't getting any playing time at the moment in the Championship) and sell Targett. McQueen isn't ideal either but he is quicker, whereas Targett is a good crosser but unfortunately provides little else at this level.
I agree that the make-or-break of any 5 at the back formation these days (at least when used on a consistent basis and not just in certain match-ups) is how you handle the overloads on the outside, which was clearly the sole focus of West Ham's attack other than when there was space on the break. Of course one way to mitigate it is to just dare your opponents to cross the ball from as deep as you can force them and trust your defenders to handle it... Less of a possibility when your CBs have an unfortunate habit of marking 0 players between the 3 of them! We knew a test on how Ralph could adapt once teams knew what they were playing against would come, and that might be one of the first big ones if we stick with this shape. Certainly there is room for simply the players being better drilled in what they are currently doing, so it might not require reinventing the wheel. Also very interested to see how much Ralph is willing to sacrifice in the name of pragmatism for this next game, as a Guardiola team is pretty much the gold standard for playing around a press. Part of me is giddy at the prospect of an undying commitment to a front-foot philosophy, part of me still maintains an ugly cowardice though.
Heh. I’d say the fact that Lemina can be viewed as a player maker is both a testament to his amazing skill and an accurate criticism of his sometime lack of focus/effort. IMO, he is supposed to be a DM with some deep playmaking skills a la early Schneiderlin. And he has all the ability to do that. Or play box to box, or even a more JWP/Davis attacking mid who spreads the ball around instead of running at defenders. But right now, he’s none of those things. He needs a good manager to give him a role and get his head straight. That result wasn’t unexpected. We looked a bit tired and we still have problems both on defense and goal scoring that can’t be easily solved. Even today though when we were mostly overrun by West Ham, I still thought we looked better than we did under Hughes. There was some kind of a plan at least, we just couldn’t execute. One solid January transfer and Hasenhuttl getting more time with the team would be enough to keep us up, I think. And then two more good moves in the summer would see us safely mid table next year. If we get one GREAT move somewhere in there, we could be looking at Euro again. But that’s looking way too far ahead. We’re improving even if we had a down day and will probably lose to Man City. I just wish we hadn’t hired Hughes so we wouldn’t be in such a deep hole.
Pretty sure McQueen broke his leg/did his ACL or some kind of season ending injury a couple of months ago
Just got in,knackered,sorry if previously mentioned but their second goal I haven't seen a goal that bad for over twenty five years when watching our nippers u/10 games. Charge!!! Best team won though.
Totally forgot about that. Still, one-legged McQueen might be an upgrade... Failing that, I'd be tempted to elevate Vokins, who has been training with the senior side. As difficult as it would be having two rookie fullbacks, Targett's decision-making is frankly not terribly above where he was at Vokins' age, anyway.
If Lemina is to be a playmaker his ability to pick and accurately play a pass needs to improve fairly dramatically. He had less key passes last year than Hoedt. He has less per 90 this season than Stephens. And believe me, those two are not surprising statistical outliers... That reflection is as unfavourable as it should be. He has 3 assists... In his career. And based purely on the most recent eye-test, he misplayed three or four fairly good opportunities tonight, though mostly by underplaying it and the surface did seem slow and to be troubling players in that regard all night. Agree with ISIRTP that he can be moulded into a few different kinds of player, and good ones at that, but for me playmaker isn't looking like one of them. His ability to beat a player can certainly give him opportunities to create that others wouldn't get, and hopefully he can be refined to taking those opportunities when they are not of great challenge. But I don't see him opening up defences without going round people too much unless we see drastic improvement in both his vision and his passing technique (doesn't exactly stroke the ball attractively like a PEH, JWP or Bertrand etc.). Also am I an odd-man-out in thinking Targett is and has been perfectly serviceable, and has shown growth in some aspects, where many of those 'steady from an early age but unspectacular' youth products tend to stay completely stagnant? Plenty of my mates have always been damning of him... But they are also idiots. Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm victim of the 'if you think everyone around you is an idiot...' scenario.
That's what we must hold on to. Even the best team can't win every game (and we aren't the best team), but we have more chance of winning games now that we have discovered how to score. This early in Ralph's reign, we will sometimes be a pig's ear and sometimes a silk purse. We are unlikely to get anything from Chelsea and City (though we might), so we must be brave little soldiers and keep the faith.
