i am amazed that anyone believes anything the remainers say if the EU say they are not going to deal with us if we leave where is all the products going to come from the next day that get bought from us at the minute? I am sure the EU business people will be real chuffed
But there was plenty of bigotry and scaremongering on the leave side too. Thanks for making some points about the economy- that's interesting. But much of what you say is dissatisfaction with the structure and administration of the EU which, like I say, seems to be the main leaving for reason. Like I've said previously, the EU isnt perfect and needs reform but when we do more than 50% of our international trade with EU countries I don't see how making that trade harder can be good for our economy.
I'm trying my best not to make this a rant ... however, our trade with the eu has fallen to c44% and continues to fall. I am very confident that businesses will always find ways to do business and this idea that trading with the eu is easier is at best a marginal fact. Experienced exporters have confirmed that it takes 15 seconds longer to do the admin on a computer for trading under WTO rules. I think for me the bottom line is that we export c290 billion a year to the eu and import c 341 billion from them. If WTO tariffs are to apply then we get a very large balance into our own coffers. Eu businesses are not daft .. they will find a way to get the eu to do a deal. An added point is that if you do the sums on the recognized average WTO tariff of c4.5% the uk trade tariff balance would be c 2.5 billion .. as opposed to paying c 19 billion to be in the eu. So we would be c 22 billion better off ... annually.
Theresa May has lied, deceived and been an absolute shambles during these negotiations the last 2+ years. She has systematically kept her cabinet in the dark, whist she has conjured up her tricks with 3rd rate advisors. Cast your mind back to 2017 when she ****ed up the election and promised the 1922 committee that she would get rid of Nick Timothy and his side kick and involve the Cabinet more and maybe cross party involvement. The woman is a megalomaniac that is in this for her alone, to cling onto power and run the clock down. Sadly the ERG moved too soon last week, if it had been after the vote then she would be gone. She is totally ****ing this Country up big style with blatant incompetence, lack of reality with a hint of dozy as ****..
I'm not trying to induce you into a rant. I'm genuinely interested in hearing a sound economic reason for Brexit. Up until what you've written, the only credible individuals who I have spoken to have suggested that it's economically better for us to stay in.
It is sad that many comments are of the poo poo kind, generally with some form of abuse added ! I genuinely think the problem is that as I pointed out earlier, its impossible to confidently predict anything ! I mean, who thought mourinho would get the sack !!! OK, OK .. we all did.
I agree with you Joe but it doesn't answer the question of where they get all their products from if they don't buy them from us It looks like the EU will let all the companies go bust just out of spite because we want to leave it won't happen mate the business people are not stupid and will tell them to sort it.
Well said that man. Reasoned opinions lcaced with credible facts do not, unfortunately, abound in this and all Brexit debates. There are good reasons why we rarely have referenda in the UK. This situation is one. We can in no circumstance have a repeat - a very large stable door will be opened - never to be closed again. That useless chinless wonder of a PM that thought he could control events when he called the referendum that led this country into a slime-pit that probably has no escape ladder. The future for my children and grandchildren,I believe, is bleak. The politicians of all parties haven’t got the backbone or gumption to lead. Some days I could cry for the future. Nil Desperandum.
I think you're right. No one really knows which way it will go. The more convincing arguments that I've heard so far are from people who want to remain. That may be because that's the way I'm leaning anyway though.
I just listen or read anything the remainers say and turn it round 360 degrees and its usually ****e. Like the day after brexit all airlines will be grounded and you won't be able to go abroad so you are going to put a million hotels out of business aye righto.
Well, yeah, that's clearly bollocks. But plenty of rubbish has been spouted by leavers too. You have to filter through a lot of rubbish from both sides of the argument before you get a coherent argument.
What about all the ferries won't be able to unload there food at Dover so there is going to be a huge food shortage no mention of all the businesses that sent the food are going to get bugger all for it. aye that's a good one.
As far as I can see the ONLY benefit is the Free Trade Agreement and this is what I voted for first time round. But since then the organisation has morphed into a federalist block, something I never would have voted for. Once we are out and the dust has settled I'm sure that trade agreements will return for the simple reason that they benefit both sides. Meanwhile our Nissan cars will cost a little more in Germany and their BMW and Merc's will cost a little more here. We have agricultural products we want to sell them, they have surpluses they want to sell us. True we will lose out on some contracts which we, as a Nation will no longer be allowed to bid for, on the other hand The EU will no longer be able to have a right to bid here. But yes, there will be a price to pay, in the short term. My view is that it's a price worth paying.
Norton I like what you're saying but it is apparently true that the lowest earners are better off without immigration, despite a massive economic advantage on average. Added to this the austerity measures hitting post-industrial towns and cities harder and then coupled with a per capita investment subsatntially lower in the provinces, I can completely understand a leave majority. I am a remain voter but from a logical point of view why would you care for a huge, on average, disadvantage if you've nowt to lose personally and breaking the system might improve things? It's completely logical and what anyone would do. Equally all this could have been avoided if the powers that be gave half a toss about places like the NE in the past. But they didn't and so people do what they have to do. If another referendum turns up I'll vote to leave despite it being a bad idea on the whole because without robust laws and democracy we are ****ed for a lot longer than a decade or two and that really matters. Just my opinion mate and I know this is a personal incendiary thing, time will tell!
[QUOTE"The Norton Cat, post: 12390140, member: 1038015"]How is she playing anything out to her advantage?! She's taken an extremely difficult situation in which there are myriad factions wanting things their own way and negotiated about the only deal possible. And when it was clear that parliament weren't happy with that deal, she still went back and tried to get the impossible. She deserves massive respect in my opinion.[/QUOTE] I believe it is because of above all she wants to be Prime Minister/Top Dog, it is for some people/reason the Holy Grail which they will do anything / everything for. My suspicion is its for personal reward. She is a walking / dancing disaster and no one can stop her, she wont listen to anybody hence all the resignations, we have changes in the cabinet on an almost daily basis, and are playing right into our rivals hands, thats the sad state of affairs this abominable party has lead us too with help from the most unlikely quarters. Apart from her determination to be right against all evidence I can not see anything she has done to earn anything. Time will judge her as it does to most, but this Brexit mess is a huge gamble to be taken by one powerful individual who's judgement is fallible to say the least.
I believe it is because of above all she wants to be Prime Minister/Top Dog, it is for some people/reason the Holy Grail which they will do anything / everything for. My suspicion is its for personal reward. She is a walking / dancing disaster and no one can stop her, she wont listen to anybody hence all the resignations, we have changes in the cabinet on an almost daily basis, and are playing right into our rivals hands, thats the sad state of affairs this abominable party has lead us too with help from the most unlikely quarters. Apart from her determination to be right against all evidence I can not see anything she has done to earn anything. Time will judge her as it does to most, but this Brexit mess is a huge gamble to be taken by one powerful individual who's judgement is fallible to say the least.[/QUOTE] She might not be doing the best of jobs but from what I hear, she is categorically not motivated by personal glory. You're right though, Brexit is a huge gamble. Someone had to shòulder the responsibility though and I can't see many queuing up to do it.
Like I've said several times now, the EU isn't perfect and needs reform but I don't see how any economic price is worth paying just because of dissatisfaction with the structure and organisation of the EU. It would be better to stay in and keep grinding away at them to change than throw our toys out of the pram suffer economically.
Thanx for that - Fry might have been born with a silver spoon in his gob but I trust him more than 100% of politicians. I urge all readers to watch it. The leading (tory) brexiteers ARE NOT working class friendly. What Britain lacks to be a true democracy is a real press that is not right wing orientated. There are many of the ilk of D. Mail/Express Sun etc. but, as far as I can see not one truly left wing press outlet. How can we the public make up our minds if we only get one side of a story. KTF
What Britain lacks is a truly unbiased press outlet. While there are plenty of right wing organs, most of the others are very liberal/left leaning.
