It will be a fine example to set to the ever growing problem of youth violence wouldn't you say.....not
I suspect most wanted 100% out of the EU on the best terms that our government could negotiate. I strongly doubt that many, if anyone, voted Leave in the hope that we would stay in large parts of it.
Bob, how many voted to stay but only because they did not trust their own politicos? How many, have no faith in UK politicians and EU politicians? How many voted to stay because the human default position is to fear the unknown? I'm in danger of raising Godot here - but, can you honestly tell me what it has done to Spain, Portugal and Greece to stay in the EU? My name is Wolfgang, I have expensive tastes with a wallet to match, is it fair that I force Luigi, Kyrios and Manuel to eat at the same restaturant of my choice every evening? Should I care that they are paying on their credit cards every night, whilst I pay cash? Should I not care about their families at home, especially their young children who need educating? Maybe, I should have been prepared to eat kebabs, pasta and tapas a few nights instead of the 2 Michellin starred fayre? Same question to you as to Stroller - Are you content with the disparites in wealth and opportunities that now exist in the UK? Should this situation morally change?
That is what remainers cannot understand. We voted to leave and that meant leave. We all know that may has tried to please everyone but she really should have worried about the brexit result first then tried to heal the rest.
Laws, rules etc are made by humans for the benefit of humans. They can be changed for the benefit of humans. If the EU wants to stop Ireland going down the ****ter they better get a move on, whatever the rules say about UK membership. see the above. If the EU are serious about looking after Ireland, it’s their shout. Immaterial how **** the UK is or isn’t. It’s sad that our best bargaining counter is throwing another country under the bus, but that’s the way it is. If the EU has the ability to clear up the mess, it should do it. Negotiation 101. You need experience and balls to carry through on BATNA though, and obviously our political/civil servant negotiating team lacked both. As well as a BATNA.
Oh I'm not content with them in the slightest. Will that suddenly change when/if we leave the EU and if so I'm really intrigued as to how
It may do - in regards to historical tribal politics - the consensus of opinion (appears to my eye) to be against. This opens up for a new dawn where long term, fair sustainable politics can come in to play. The change will/can come as the aftershock of leaving. Staying? More of the same please Sir. Could it have been done from within? Possibly, but it didn't - time for a change, if anyone can show the way, the 5th alrgest economy might be the one to do it. Do we really want the situation where the most Liberal country in the World has now become ripe for Right Wing pickings? Sweden, in case you were wondering...
Sweden's major issues due to right wing is their Muslim population turning whole cities into ghettos not really much to do with the EU. As for the Wolfgang analogy, surely if his guests couldn't afford to pay then they wouldn't have gone for a meal. I certainly don't want to base my future on a 'may be'
I'll have to admit to having to look up BATNA, Danish. Having done so, it seems to me that WTO is not a 'best' alternative to a negotiated agreement, it's the only one, and it's not attractive. If WTO was an attractive, or even acceptable outcome, nations around the world wouldn't be so desperately keen to make their own free trade agreements would they? As far as I'm aware, on leaving we'd be the only nation in the world trading 100% on WTO rules. We knew the EU's red lines before we started, but May painted her own ones that made the deal that she has come back with almost inevitable, and acceptable to hardly anyone. Goldie's assertion that both sides in the referendum campaign agreed that Brexit meant leaving every single EU institution is a convenient and deliberate over-simplification. Yes, Cameron and Osborne stated that it would mean just that, but that was just part of Remain's 'project fear'. They knew full well it wasn't necessarily so. Similarly, many on the Leave side were cynically talking up soft options such as Norway in order to seduce those that wanted to give the government a kick, but without wanting to sever all EU ties. We deserved better, and May should have come up with a compromise offer that didn't totally exclude the 48%. As to the UK's disparity in wealth and opportunity, of course I don't accept that, and I fervently hope for a Labour government that will properly tackle it. I believe a Corbyn/McDonnell administration would do just that, but I guess you are telling me that it can't happen whilst we are still in the EU. I don't see why that should be the case, but if it was true, and I had to choose between staying in the EU and a radical Labour government, I'd go for the latter.
Laws/rules certainly can be changed, but they must be applied consistently once changed, otherwise they become entirely without meaning. And they won't want to risk everyone having their cake and eating it, as has been made clear many times. Hence the EU staying openly and clearly to their four fundamental principles. I don't see the "we'll take Ireland down with us" argument as one which will manage to get to EU to bend on that - they know we will end up more damaged, in both economy and reputation, and blink first. It's why I'd have settled for May's deal - ideally with greater reassurance on the backstop. Obviously very hard to know what will happen - but increasingly looking like no deal vs 2nd ref. My guess (and it is just that) is that we will end up having a second vote (not what I'd choose) and that leave will win again. And then we start again
Does anyone here know if WTO rules are automatically applied upon leaving? I have a hazy memory of reading somewhere about needing to negotiate entry to WTO / WTO terms but could be quite wrong. Any decent links on this topic?
I can assure you I hope to see you on the battlefield What you watch is what? What I see with my own eyes in more credible You are the exactly the very person that correction Your viewpoint is thankfully a minority Our Government is the corrupt one you very stupid person
You're quite right Bob - they are, and that was brought about by fullfilling EU quotas to the letter. Thereafter, once the initial families were in, the rest followed. But heh, Sweden would have let them in anyway if it weren't for the EU, or so you insinuate. Interesting that you think Wolfgang's guests wouldn't have gone for the meal - well, ask Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal what they were faced with when it was time to pay the bills? They have been left in almost perpetual ruin, generations lost. They didn't want to keep going to those restaurants but were made to as Wolfgang owned the restaurant and the banks they owed the money to. You see, Wolfgang is Germany, as you quite easily can deduce. If all you sell is oranges, taramasalata, olive oil, Metaxa, tourism, Barolo, Fiat, Seat, Brunello di Montelcino, Sherry, tomatoes - how could you ever trade on the same terms as someone that sells Mercedes, BMW, Audi,Volkswagen, Siemens, Bosch, SAP, DHL, Knorr, Miele? Can you see the potential flaw? Do you think that was or is fair? You seem a really fair and grounded person - keep away from the fright, nightmare scenario that sells, what has made the EU so fantastic apart from it becoming easier to travel on holidays to wonderful cities? Everything else, the ability to move and live in other countires was always there - trade was always there - so genuine question, as someone who left the UK for DK - what has been so briliant about the EU that everyone now is frightened at leaving?
