Off Topic The Politics Thread

which country do these young people want to be unemployed in

 

Youth Unemployment Rate in New Zealand decreased to 10.90 percent in the second quarter of 2018 from 12.40 percent in the first quarter of 2018. Youth Unemployment Rate in New Zealand averaged 11.95 percent from 2004 until 2018, reaching an all time high of 15.30 percent in the fourth quarter of 2009 and a record low of 10.30 percent in the first quarter of 2004.

sorry
full up here
do you need any bar staff

 

Brexit has nothing to do with the will of 17m people as is being proven. It has nothing to do with the 16m others who voted. Let's just crack on with whatever happens now.

 

So much to disagree with from DT and Yorkshire, but it's all been said already. We just go around in circles and we'll never agree.

 

The Norway option is worse than what's on the table now. I honestly don't understand why anyone would be proposing it.

 

Without, genuinely, wishing to stir things up, this cluster **** is raising some interesting constitutional questions, which I am far from qualified to comment on.

As you know I don’t want another referendum, I don’t like them full stop (although I recognise there are certain rare circumstances they are the right thing to do). They don’t sit well with a representative parliamentary system in my opinion. Plus I entirely agree with the Brexiters objection that it smacks of asking the question endlessly until the ‘right’ answer is obtained. The 2016 referendum, though it was a ****ing moronic idea by a ****ing moronic Prime Minister, held for all the wrong reasons, offered a clear choice and a decision was made. The wrong one from my standpoint, but there you go.

But one of the things that many Brexit voters wanted was more ‘sovereignty’. Again as you know I have my views on what this really means, but not relevant here. But we do have to be absolutely clear what sovereignty means in this debate. Again my opinion only, in the British system sovereignty is held (with technically the Queen’s permission) by our elected representatives in Parliament. Not by ‘the people’.

So what are the MPs for? In my view they are representatives not delegates. They are not there to do what their constituents, or the people who voted for them, want, they are there to study all the issues the government puts in front of them to a depth which we ordinary citizens cannot and vote according to what they believe is best for all of their constituents.

So, if Parliament decides to reject this deal in favour of something else, including staying in or another referendum (though that would be dereliction of duty from my standpoint) it would be a shining example of what many Brexiters voted for - the exercise of Parliamentary Sovereignty.

Our big problem is that, despite many of them acting as excellent advocates for individual constituents with problems, the overall quality of our elected representatives is shockingly low, something which we all seem to agree on. I don’t trust them to do their jobs properly.

The alternative would be a new form of much more direct democracy, many more referenda, more active and inclusive local government structures, building to a national level. I’m guessing that only Stainsey on here would be really for this. For it to work you need a massively motivated, informed and engaged population, otherwise only the activists will have a voice, the ones who can be bothered to turn out, debate, vote. A system open to abuse, intimidation and manipulation, like local Labour constituency parties. Not for me.

I’ve probably got bits of this wrong, just trying to think it through, and will be grateful for correction/education. It seems to me that we are in a now in a position where we are also divided on what our democracy actually is and how it should work. The one plus is that I can see the demise of the two party dominant system from all this, both major parties are hopelessly split and in neither do a majority of their MPs support their leader.

 

I think I said pretty much this in a reply to Goldie recently. We seem to be nearing a point where our sovereign Parliament (as opposed to the minority government) decides that we are heading down a path that is not in the country's best interests and that it needs to take a hand to stop it. If May wins the vote, so be it, but Parliament would only be doing its proper duty if it acts to prevent a highly damaging No-Deal exit, either by revoking Article 50, or by offering an alternative Brexit arrangement (probably Norway). If no majority can be found for either of these, they should refer the decision back to the people via another referendum, with all realistic options on the ballot paper.

 

Well the GB stats I don’t believe at all as it doesn’t take into account those currently still in education racking up debt at an alarming rate

My point is clear without a robust economic base there are no jobs for our next generations
Brexit sends us back 15 years for starters

Try and source how many highly trained UK young people are currently in work but not working in their desired field they trained for ?

The company I work for employs the very best designers that are out there sadly there is a trend that the best are from overseas they are miles ahead. Just in my profession we have to get our talent pool up. So often I find a UK junior designer hasn’t the basic skills to keep in my teams .
That is not all of them but it’s a trend that has been steadily getting worse. Generally if I need back end work for example coding or new tech I start looking at Asian candidates. If I need flair then I look to Europe especially Spain,France

OK this is just my sector but sadly more often that not UK candidates are users of tech and clueless about the architecture and basic systems... that coupled with a cultural imprint I only see problems I haven’t got time for in my industry. I need staff that go for it from the off and don’t need chasing every hour

Friends have exactly the same problems in other sectors from the building, hospitality, gardening, sales and fabrication sectors. The story is the same. The high streets around the UK have been dying for years as the online influence cuts in even deeper 85% now of all my work starts on a smart phone first a massive radical change and we have most of our potential talent locked inside catering jobs trapped in a pillar to post culture with massive living costs that the UK has.

The dangers and trend is that these highly skilled tech jobs can be done from anywhere especially France ... the only thread of hope we have is the English language. Show me10 candidates from Europe / Asia and most will have 3 fluent languages the same is very rare from a candidate from the UK ... who do you pick ?

Massive boom taking place in cities around France that I know of where tech centres are growing way ahead of us. We still however have London and Manchester both remain strongholds that is because people understand what era we are now living in. These cities will always prop up the other promising UK places but only if we remain

Posting a graph implies to me exactly where the talent pool is to back up my points

Closing up the UK with a wild ideal of Sovereignty will not solve anything of the problems I have mentioned it will damage us even worse without a shadow of doubt

We have to accept we are the big shop and of course that attracts talent from all around the world and that won’t change until we have caught up. Operationally our next generations need the EU

I challenge any poster to look within their own sectors to see if I have a point which I believe I do

 

Not in the customs union which allows trade deals outside of EEA. In European free market which has huge benefits imo for people and continued free European market access for UK services, about 80% of the economy.

 

Comparison between unemployment rates in different countries is very unreliable Kiwi, because different counties measure it in different ways. There is a big difference between measuring it as a ratio against those available for the job market, as against all of those in a certain age group. Countries like France, Spain and Greece have a far higher percentage of young people in post compulsory higher education participation than that found in the UK. They then measure unemployment against those remaining on the job market, and thus arrive at a much higher figure than eg. the UK. which measures in a different way.

 

No problem Col
I sincerely admire the patriot I do but I believe the problems are too far gone to recapture any sort of England ... we sold out sad but true

If I ever saw just one idea or plan I could believe in for my country then I guarantee I will absorb it

Having a sovereignty dream is great 100% but without serious well thought out business plans or ideas then currently to me it’s totally unrealistic

 

Seriously everyone has been let down by UK politics because our culture has let it . They should know that they work for us and sadly they don’t

Within UK corporate culture it’s the same story imo
Self Obsessed fluff people unable to take responsibility for any given task. I work across Europe all the time I guarantee you there is a big difference

 

How about somebody culls you, you complete unpatriotic, democracy denying,europhile fruit loop.
You are without a doubt one of the most odious little tin pot arrogant self believing clowns it has been my misfortune to come across online or in life.

 

Agree I only see a free trade deal out of this. Some interesting comments from financial Bods yesterday who said a lot of business were ready for any outcome even a no deal but it was the government who seem to be the ones not prepared. ( It's as if May has orcastrated this to fail)
This people's Veto does make me laugh... We are suppose to ask the people again as they got it wrong last time and on the ballot paper will be 3 options ( to split the leave vote). They really are patronizing 2222’s. Don't the realise they will lose again... Then what?
This is Mays mess because she was always a remainer and didn't believe in it. She needs to fall on her sword next week so we can bring in a strong Brexitier to sort out the weak EU.

 

What ??

If people are in compulsory education programmes, then they would be removed from the numerator and the denominator of the unemployment calculation ??

Therefore artificially making youth unemployment figures better ??

 

Excellent post. Can I sense check something? Are you sceptical about the notion of national sovereignty? If so, am I correct to assume that is on the basis of increasing numbers of global corporations with as much wealth/power/influence as a medium sized country, and no loyalty to a given nation state? Further based on the number of challenges we now face which are truly global (eg warming) which necessitate co-operative (ie compromise) responses from all Govts? Do please correct if/where wrong!

 

Right on all points Raving. One of the reasons I like the idea, if not the practice, of the EU is that it enables much bigger scale thinking and action.

But my scepticsm is about the utility of nation states (or all but the very biggest like the US or China) not about their emotional resonance. We like to have things which help to identify us.

 

Seriously, there are numerous western countries who have been let down by politicians of all colours, that's why a nut-head let Trump got voted in, that's why Greece and Spain have voted into government, extreme parties, that's why a bunch of idiots, collectively called UKIP got so many votes, until their incompetancies were exposed.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-deal-parliament-european-court-a8669886.html

I wonder what the result we be? It is so hard to work out what way this will go?
These democratic votes are so hard to call....

 

mm, much bigger scale thinking ?? Like when they tried to ban the sale of straight bananas ??