Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
UK plans sat-nav system to rival EU's Galileo
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Image copyright European Space Agency
Image caption The European Union has put together Galileo as its own network of satellites
Britain is planning to build its own space satellite-navigation system after pulling out of the EU's Galileo project, the prime minister has said.
The UK had wanted to stay part of Galileo after Brexit, but the EU said it would be banned from the extra-secure elements of the programme.
UK science minister Sam Gyimah has quit over the row, saying it exposed the flaws with Theresa May's Brexit deal.
"Galileo is a clarion call that it will be 'EU first'," he said.
The UK's interests "will be repeatedly and permanently hammered by the EU27 for many years to come", he added in a Facebook post setting out his reasons for resigning. He also said he would be voting against Mrs May's deal.
Former Tory cabinet minister and campaigner for the People's Vote, Justine Greening, said Mr Gyimah was a "highly respected and capable minister" and praised him for not ruling out a second vote.
And the Lib Dem's education spokeswoman, Layla Moran, said Mr Gyimah's exit showed the government was "falling apart", and that he had "seen at close quarters the devastating effect this botched Brexit will have on these important sectors".
Galileo is the EU's upcoming version of the US's GPS, which is used by millions of people around the world.
The UK invested €1.4bn into the project and has estimated returns to UK industry of €1.15bn.
But when the BBC asked if any more of the money would be given back, a government spokesman said the project was "part of the withdrawal agreement" and the UK had reached "a fair financial settlement with the EU".
Mrs May said the British army - which had been planning to use Galileo along with the US GPS - will no longer use it.
The UK will instead explore options to build its own satellite navigation system. The government has already set aside £92m to look at how it can be done.
"I cannot let our armed services depend on a system we cannot be sure of," Mrs May said. "That would not be in our national interest.
"And as a global player with world-class engineers and steadfast allies around the world we are not short of options."
What is Galileo?
Many people's sat-navs and mobile location services currently run on a US military-based system called GPS - global positioning system - which uses satellites to pinpoint our locations. China and Russia also have satellite-navigation positioning systems.
In 1999, the European Union embarked on a plan to put together its own network of satellites, called Galileo, so it was not reliant on the US, Russian and Chinese systems.
The first satellites were put into orbit in 2013 and it is planned to be fully operational in 2020 with 30 satellites orbiting earth. The technology will be used by EU governments, citizens, military and industry.
You must log in or register to see images
Image copyright European Space Agency
Image caption Galileo satellites are now launching on Europe's premier rocket, the Ariane 5
All EU member states will be allowed access to it - including the "public regulated service" (PRS) part of Galileo, which is the secret inner workings and is due to be completed in the mid-2020s.
This can only be used by government-authorised users like police and only during emergencies or crisis situations.
While GPS is accurate to within about 20 metres, Galileo is designed to improve that, to around one metre.
The government said there should be no noticeable impact for the public from withdrawing from the project, as devices that already use Galileo, such as smartphones, will carry on doing so.
Why did the UK and EU disagree over it?
The UK has been a key player in the Galileo project. The UK has spent 1.4bn euros (£1.2bn) on the project, according to a report in April.
UK companies have built components for Galileo and one of the project's two Galileo Security Monitoring Centres was based in the UK, in Swanwick. The site is now being relocated to Spain.
In May 2018, the UK's Department for Exiting the European Union said it wanted to continue participating in Galileo.
But the EU said that the restricted and security-related part of the system - PRS, which is of particular interest for the military - is only for EU members and, after Brexit, the UK will not be allowed access.
The EU said the UK would not be allowed to be trusted with the EU's most sensitive security information after Brexit.
In June 2018, UK companies were excluded from bidding for contracts on the satellite system.
You must log in or register to see images

Media playback is unsupported on your device
Why is there a row about Galileo?
Exit player
Media captionWhy is there a row about Galileo?
What has the UK government announced?
On Friday evening, Downing Street said the UK will no longer seek access to secure aspects of Galileo for defence or critical infrastructure after Brexit.
Instead, the UK Space Agency is looking into creating Britain's own system that can be used to guide military drones, run energy networks and be used on people's smartphones. Contracts are being tendered.
Any system will provide both open and encrypted signals and must be compatible with the US GPS system in case one is attacked.
"I have been clear from the outset that the UK will remain firmly committed to Europe's collective security after Brexit," the PM said.
"But given the Commission's decision to bar the UK from being fully involved in developing all aspects of Galileo it is only right that we find alternatives.
Number 10 said the UK is a "world-leader in developing satellite technology", adding that "Glasgow builds more satellites than any other European city".
You must log in or register to see images

Media playback is unsupported on your device
UK Space Agency chief executive: 'We can build our own sat-nav system'
Exit player
Media captionUK Space Agency chief executive: 'We can build our own sat-nav system'
Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said: "Space poses a new and increasingly dangerous front for warfare and it is crucial to push ahead with plans for our own world-class, independent satellite system.
"This also gives us an opportunity to draw on British skills and expertise as we leave the EU as a truly leading nation in satellite technology."
In August, UK ministers set aside £92m to scope out how feasible it would be to create an alternative to Galileo. The programme to design it, the government said, would take approximately 18 months to complete.
What have critics said?
Conservative MP Dominic Grieve, who campaigned for the UK to stay in the EU, said: "Brexit was supposed to increase our strength and influence, yet here we are pulling out of a key project of great importance to our national security.
"To compound this disaster, we will have to pay out billions to replace the project," he said.
 
MAY actually said there are two options leave under her deal, or leave with no deal,Tusk has stated if we don’t agree with THE DEAL, there will be no Brexit, he as much as said we will not be allowed to leave with no deal, in other words we cannot leave without giving them £39 Billion, and agreeing to “their “ backstop which actually ties us to the corrupt EU until THEY let us go.
The more you read into it, the EU are desperate to hold onto us and our contributions because they have begun to realise that without us they cannot afford to continue to function as almost all the other major contributors have said they WILL NOT make up the shortfall.
May said only alternatives to her deal were no deal or no Brexit, right after leaving the agreement. She got a lot of questions about saying no Brexit so she tends not to repeat those 2 words, but she said them.
 
Last ditch Euro loving freaks trying any trick. If this had been a Brexiteer it would have been all over this thread.

Said it’s was theatre
Worse thing is the actors in all of this aren’t just extras ... The wayward sheep love this sort of stuff

Time this is over there will be less than 10 million naughty Brexiteer sheep that will be returned to their green and pleasant pasture where they dream of the old days
 
May said only alternatives to her deal were no deal or no Brexit, right after leaving the agreement. She got a lot of questions about saying no Brexit so she tends not to repeat those 2 words, but she said them.
This is weird from me but...
I watched a program last night breaking down May’s deal and what it actually means. <yikes> Bloody hell what a sell out. I can see and agree with some that say we are better staying in the EU than having her deal.
Leadsom, Gove, Fox hang your heads in shame for Brexitiers supporting that.
 
This is weird from me but...
I watched a program last night breaking down May’s deal and what it actually means. <yikes> Bloody hell what a sell out. I can see and agree with some that say we are better staying in the EU than having her deal.
Leadsom, Gove, Fox hang your heads in shame for Brexitiers supporting that.

This is your first sensible contribution to the thread :azn:
 
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This is weird from me but...
I watched a program last night breaking down May’s deal and what it actually means. <yikes> Bloody hell what a sell out. I can see and agree with some that say we are better staying in the EU than having her deal.
Leadsom, Gove, Fox hang your heads in shame for Brexitiers supporting that.

A rotten deal negotiated from weakness by a Remain-voting MP whose heart was never in Brexit and who could never see the opportunities it would give the UK to become a real competitive force.

I see Paris is burning again. Let's hope the rain puts the fires out (at least, until next weekend)
 
A rotten deal negotiated from weakness by a Remain-voting MP whose heart was never in Brexit and who could never see the opportunities it would give the UK to become a real competitive force.

I see Paris is burning again. Let's hope the rain puts the fires out (at least, until next weekend)

There are no opportunities. We were sold a pup. Fortunately we all knew what we were voting for though hence the clarity and sense of purpose in the last two years.
 
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That's it in a nutshell, a pathetic surrender just to get a deal at any cost...
Yes one of the analysts said it was a great opportunity for us to move forward in the world rather than be held back shackeled to the EU. I just hope her predictions are correct in that May will go after the first vote and we get in a proper Brexit team.
 
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There are no opportunities. We were sold a pup. Fortunately we all knew what we were voting for though hence the clarity and sense of purpose in the last two years.

The concept for the 5th biggest economy in the world is sound. The implementation was the pup. May is an academic and has a self-seeking political antenna, but she is no businesswoman and her judgement is often flawed. Look at her call for a general election, the Tory seats she lost, the deadbeats she relied on for advice. She was subservient to the EU right from the start of the negotiations and agreed the £37bn (one of our best bargaining cards) early on.

She will lose the Parliamentary vote on her abject deal and then she has to go, and a Brexit-supporting minister come in to take us through to managed WTO next March
 
The concept for the 5th biggest economy in the world is sound. The implementation was the pup. May is an academic and has a self-seeking political antenna, but she is no businesswoman and her judgement is often flawed. Look at her call for a general election, the Tory seats she lost, the deadbeats she relied on for advice. She was subservient to the EU right from the start of the negotiations and agreed the £37bn (one of our best bargaining cards) early on.

She will lose the Parliamentary vote on her abject deal and then she has to go, and a Brexit-supporting minister come in to take us through to managed WTO next March

These are just soundbites. There’s no realistic way of us having it better than we do as an EU nation. The government’s own analysis shows that. It’s a damage limitation exercise now, not helped by our enemy within desperate to claim some sort of win out it rather than accept the public was sold a dud, paid for with illegal foreign money.
 
These are just soundbites. There’s no realistic way of us having it better than we do as an EU nation. The government’s own analysis shows that. It’s a damage limitation exercise now, not helped by our enemy within desperate to claim some sort of win out it rather than accept the public was sold a dud, paid for with illegal foreign money.

Governmental economic predictions were so far off the mark post referendum, that to base arguments around those is, at the least, unwise
 
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UK plans sat-nav system to rival EU's Galileo
You must log in or register to see images
Image copyright European Space Agency
Image caption The European Union has put together Galileo as its own network of satellites
Britain is planning to build its own space satellite-navigation system after pulling out of the EU's Galileo project, the prime minister has said.
The UK had wanted to stay part of Galileo after Brexit, but the EU said it would be banned from the extra-secure elements of the programme.
UK science minister Sam Gyimah has quit over the row, saying it exposed the flaws with Theresa May's Brexit deal.
"Galileo is a clarion call that it will be 'EU first'," he said.
The UK's interests "will be repeatedly and permanently hammered by the EU27 for many years to come", he added in a Facebook post setting out his reasons for resigning. He also said he would be voting against Mrs May's deal.
Former Tory cabinet minister and campaigner for the People's Vote, Justine Greening, said Mr Gyimah was a "highly respected and capable minister" and praised him for not ruling out a second vote.
And the Lib Dem's education spokeswoman, Layla Moran, said Mr Gyimah's exit showed the government was "falling apart", and that he had "seen at close quarters the devastating effect this botched Brexit will have on these important sectors".
Galileo is the EU's upcoming version of the US's GPS, which is used by millions of people around the world.
The UK invested €1.4bn into the project and has estimated returns to UK industry of €1.15bn.
But when the BBC asked if any more of the money would be given back, a government spokesman said the project was "part of the withdrawal agreement" and the UK had reached "a fair financial settlement with the EU".
Mrs May said the British army - which had been planning to use Galileo along with the US GPS - will no longer use it.
The UK will instead explore options to build its own satellite navigation system. The government has already set aside £92m to look at how it can be done.
"I cannot let our armed services depend on a system we cannot be sure of," Mrs May said. "That would not be in our national interest.
"And as a global player with world-class engineers and steadfast allies around the world we are not short of options."
What is Galileo?
Many people's sat-navs and mobile location services currently run on a US military-based system called GPS - global positioning system - which uses satellites to pinpoint our locations. China and Russia also have satellite-navigation positioning systems.
In 1999, the European Union embarked on a plan to put together its own network of satellites, called Galileo, so it was not reliant on the US, Russian and Chinese systems.
The first satellites were put into orbit in 2013 and it is planned to be fully operational in 2020 with 30 satellites orbiting earth. The technology will be used by EU governments, citizens, military and industry.
You must log in or register to see images
Image copyright European Space Agency
Image caption Galileo satellites are now launching on Europe's premier rocket, the Ariane 5
All EU member states will be allowed access to it - including the "public regulated service" (PRS) part of Galileo, which is the secret inner workings and is due to be completed in the mid-2020s.
This can only be used by government-authorised users like police and only during emergencies or crisis situations.
While GPS is accurate to within about 20 metres, Galileo is designed to improve that, to around one metre.
The government said there should be no noticeable impact for the public from withdrawing from the project, as devices that already use Galileo, such as smartphones, will carry on doing so.
Why did the UK and EU disagree over it?
The UK has been a key player in the Galileo project. The UK has spent 1.4bn euros (£1.2bn) on the project, according to a report in April.
UK companies have built components for Galileo and one of the project's two Galileo Security Monitoring Centres was based in the UK, in Swanwick. The site is now being relocated to Spain.
In May 2018, the UK's Department for Exiting the European Union said it wanted to continue participating in Galileo.
But the EU said that the restricted and security-related part of the system - PRS, which is of particular interest for the military - is only for EU members and, after Brexit, the UK will not be allowed access.
The EU said the UK would not be allowed to be trusted with the EU's most sensitive security information after Brexit.
In June 2018, UK companies were excluded from bidding for contracts on the satellite system.
You must log in or register to see images

Media playback is unsupported on your device
Why is there a row about Galileo?
Exit player
Media captionWhy is there a row about Galileo?
What has the UK government announced?
On Friday evening, Downing Street said the UK will no longer seek access to secure aspects of Galileo for defence or critical infrastructure after Brexit.
Instead, the UK Space Agency is looking into creating Britain's own system that can be used to guide military drones, run energy networks and be used on people's smartphones. Contracts are being tendered.
Any system will provide both open and encrypted signals and must be compatible with the US GPS system in case one is attacked.
"I have been clear from the outset that the UK will remain firmly committed to Europe's collective security after Brexit," the PM said.
"But given the Commission's decision to bar the UK from being fully involved in developing all aspects of Galileo it is only right that we find alternatives.
Number 10 said the UK is a "world-leader in developing satellite technology", adding that "Glasgow builds more satellites than any other European city".
You must log in or register to see images

Media playback is unsupported on your device
UK Space Agency chief executive: 'We can build our own sat-nav system'
Exit player
Media captionUK Space Agency chief executive: 'We can build our own sat-nav system'
Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said: "Space poses a new and increasingly dangerous front for warfare and it is crucial to push ahead with plans for our own world-class, independent satellite system.
"This also gives us an opportunity to draw on British skills and expertise as we leave the EU as a truly leading nation in satellite technology."
In August, UK ministers set aside £92m to scope out how feasible it would be to create an alternative to Galileo. The programme to design it, the government said, would take approximately 18 months to complete.
What have critics said?
Conservative MP Dominic Grieve, who campaigned for the UK to stay in the EU, said: "Brexit was supposed to increase our strength and influence, yet here we are pulling out of a key project of great importance to our national security.
"To compound this disaster, we will have to pay out billions to replace the project," he said.

As the petulemt EU have decided to exclude us from Galileo, perhaps we should see how they cope without our excellent intelligence services and our unrivalled Special Forces, the latter of which train and aid forces throughout Europe and beyond.
Good luck with that!!
 
Said it’s was theatre
Worse thing is the actors in all of this aren’t just extras ... The wayward sheep love this sort of stuff

Time this is over there will be less than 10 million naughty Brexiteer sheep that will be returned to their green and pleasant pasture where they dream of the old days
Will this scenario include you bowing down to your beloved leader Barnier and moving permanently to your desired abode France, to become a complete anti British clown.
 
Interesting what University and Science Minister Sam Gyimah has just said on radio ” that you can't deal with the EU. It's like playing football against them. Where they are the ref and they make the rules up”. This is from a remainer who met with EU officials and left the meeting thinking WTF!
Time and time again people ( remainers) are realising exactly what the EU is about.
We must get out of this.
 
As the petulemt EU have decided to exclude us from Galileo, perhaps we should see how they cope without our excellent intelligence services and our unrivalled Special Forces, the latter of which train and aid forces throughout Europe and beyond.
Good luck with that!!
And get back the £1+b we put into it. Without us Galileo would never have taken off. I'm would also withdraw our 600 troops from Estonia. They will then start supporting us.
 
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These are just soundbites. There’s no realistic way of us having it better than we do as an EU nation. The government’s own analysis shows that. It’s a damage limitation exercise now, not helped by our enemy within desperate to claim some sort of win out it rather than accept the public was sold a dud, paid for with illegal foreign money.
Spot on from you Bracknell!
 
This is weird from me but...
I watched a program last night breaking down May’s deal and what it actually means. <yikes> Bloody hell what a sell out. I can see and agree with some that say we are better staying in the EU than having her deal.
Leadsom, Gove, Fox hang your heads in shame for Brexitiers supporting that.
Thought you would of read it st least before your rubbish
 
As the petulemt EU have decided to exclude us from Galileo, perhaps we should see how they cope without our excellent intelligence services and our unrivalled Special Forces, the latter of which train and aid forces throughout Europe and beyond.
Good luck with that!!

Not sure they will need luck Col
We rely on their services more than they need us
Have a look into it you maybe very surprised sir