Off Topic we [ BCFC 606 ers ] debated IN or OUT and now

answers are out there.. being argued about everyday …
ignore the confusion being generated by the likes of the self indulgent Mugg and Corbin and you will see under the smoke what is part of the process which is and never was just a one stage process.
the process was drawn up over 30 years ago maybe as much as 40 when lots of present day things were different . the first stage was sorting the out date article 50 MARCH 29th 2019.. a date set to alleviate a country saying we are off and taking 10 years or whatever to do it …. or possibly screw you lot not paying anything and leaving the week after????

simply put is as ashton said, and I have in previous posts AN UNELECTED BODY [ just one of things reported in past 18 months ]treating Europe THEIR COMPANY … YOU NEED TO PAY TO WORK HERE and if you are lucky we will occasionally give you back some ……….. that is if we haven't wasted it on our own luxuries, wages expese accounts, bailed out the incompetent wasters and spent £millions on really important aspects like after deciding if the curve of a bannana should be 5% or 10- 1%; 11.2% 13.6% or 15.653% of an arc when the circumference is based on a Spanish melon weighing 5.4kg picked when ripe determined by being able to subject it to the pressure of withstanding x number of concrete blocks that contain 20% cement from ENGLAND, 30% sand from Holland and 50% gravel from the middle reach's of the river Enns mixed with water from the springs below the matterhorn at a temp of 25 c …. it only a year or so to decide, and what happened next of course Supermarkets sold "fun bananas" or other such funky choices..... an abandoned project was to breed chickens with square egg producing ends, the egg would be laid as an oblong shaped cube and when hard boiled easier to fit into a sandwich with proposed square tomato's and cucumbers ……………….

 

Smokescreen Rod

 

I wanted to retire to Spain but that’s probably not an option now as i can’t retire for another 8 years and I need to have moved there before March 2019 in order to be allowed to stay longer than 90 days.
Ah well - the best laid plans of Mice and Men and all that.

 

RedorDead said: ↑
It’s a World wide company. And yes construction took place before we entered. But that was then and this is now. All I know is we are feeling a hit with big figure redundancy happening right now with Brexit one of the contributors.
And before someone says no it’s not a contributor, I would rather take the word of the finance team in work.
Click to expand...
Smokescreen Rod

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the by pass is a bit like Brexit … you know it needs to be done [ = exit ] you then have to check out how [ and route ] funding contractors etc etc etc = stage 2
it will get built, and it was never going to be a quick fix thing … a year or more ago I was "told/ whispered" it would be 2025 possibly before anything concrete - no pun intended - would transpire! It is an immense project that encompasses more than just a few concrete reinforced bridges /pylons etc ………………
Based on the time it has taken to do , still nowhere complete and behind schedule, the m6 smart motorway, a self funding scheme paid for by the prospect of advanced prospects and current speeding tickets it will take till 2050

 

Nonsense mate. Actually JGF, it was brought about by a global economic crash. Since 2010 we have had completely unnecessary austerity which has been proven time and again not to work in many other countries. Do you not find it a bit weird that while we've all suffered through our public services, the rich in the country have continuously got richer while crucial and lucrative Government contracts have gone to relatives of existing cabinet ministers? We are a statistical anomaly in that we are the only country out of the top EU nations to have not recovered relative wage levels back to how they were in 2008. Labour did overspend, but it was also Gordon Brown who brought together the world and dragged it out of the crisis.

 

You do realise that a huge chunk of those who fought in World War 1 didn't have the vote? So straight away that argument about the ancestors fighting for Parliament rule is nonsense. It's actually the generation of war-veterans children that tend to shout this. Those in the age bracket who would've fought in WW2 generally voted to remain, so maybe that tells you what they fought for?

And let's not pretend that the UK is some democratic nirvana. We don't elect any of our cabinet ministers. We didn't initially vote for Theresa May. 'True' democracy doesn't exist unless you want to go into very left-wing alternatives which are idealistic but not realistic.

The EU has brought peace and prosperity for the most part in a very dense, and previously turbulent area. It has flaws absolutely, but you cannot tell me that during our lifetimes it hasn't done too badly for us in that respect. If the alternative is becoming the equivalent of the US or Russia with their leadership systems I'd take the EU all day long.

I didn't vote, but I was leave at the time of the referendum (I even posted on here). But since hearing and seeing with my own eyes that 90% of what we were promised was complete and utter bollocks, I'm firmly remain now.

 

Cheers RR, when I go in tomorrow I will let them know and send a email out to all those at risk that you’ve mentioned this. I’m sure they will start an uprising with placards saying RR says it’s all lies.
Also I will send an email out to all the construction builders that you think it’s all ok, so they can the start teendering for these projects that are not going ahead.

Mentioned earlier on in this thread, last time I’ve seen a dip in enquiries was in 2008 but this time the new house builds is still ok, at the moment.

 

so you are saying that all the hype and general election canvassing was a load of bu**s*** and there was no blackhole before it all collapsed into the next government which was the coalition, and they had a super smooth ride and didn't have to pay back any monsterous loans.

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" Quote at the time from Alex Salmon ............Labour halved our manufacture and invested in bankers. These were lean years for many a small business and Brown ran a deficit from the second election on. This meant pro-cyclical rather than counter cyclical budget deficits. Inflation was hidden by a move to CPI rather than RPI, and a yawning trade gap with cheap foreign imports. There was no real net growth after 2005 because it was all built on increased public and private borrowing. Brown borrowed into the future too, expecting receipts to continue rising. This is partly why public spending has increased so much since – we still have an overbloated public sector with record pay levels, growing debt and deficit, and NO economic growth. Brown created the illusion of prosperity but by ditching manufacture, he ensured we will not recover for a long long time. Had we gone the Balls route, our debts and deficits would be even greater.
There was note left by the outgoing finance minister ….good luck the coffers are empty ..or words to that effect ...

 

and what exactly were we promised? As I WAS PRETTY ATTENTIVE AND DIDNT ACTUALLY HEAR ANY PROMISES .. before the vote
What I did hear was arguments about the pro's and cons attached to either sides argument that was ….. would it be better or worse for this that and the other item eg beter or worse for fishing or agriculture etc etc no one said I promise you fishing will be " set out in stone and …" the word that nearly always came up from either side negotiate … the remainers using it should we leave and the leavers using it because we leave!
even today all sides and parties comment along the same lines " we didn't know what how or when certain consequences would raise their heads and we have to deal with them" the best we can … negotiation [ that is a negotiation is when 2 sides or more have different opinions and often is eventually settled with compromise ]

 

That is a good thing, although some of the sites being used are minimalistic = profiteering. my nephew has just managed to get on the housing ladder has 2 kids deposit was £25k had to borrow £75k or something on gov scheme and take out a mortgage as well! I think in 5 years? he has to re DO EVERYTHING
sell up / see what money is lef t /, re mortgage, or move to different premises with existing acting as deposit and remortgage.
I live in a mid 60's semi … on the same footprint as my house and next door you can get 3 houses, you can get 3 more in our joint back gardens our front gardens at 6m to path is bigger size as their back garden. their front garden is 3m wide barely... no matter where in the main bedroom you put a double bed there is just 15"(best way ) or 21" (worst way) between it and a wall ……….. priced at £270k … my house priced / valued at +£300k

 

The Tories have been in power since 2010 not 2012. You moan about Labour being poor with finances, yet somehow the Tories have borrowed even more while imposing austerity on us while miraculously the rich have somehow got far, far richer, while awarding crucial Government contracts to their friends and even their own families.

You criticise Labour but I guarantee you won't have the same criticism for the Tories when you realise since 2010 they've borrowed more money than every Labour Government in history combined. All while imposing this bull**** austerity.

I'm so glad you asked. Just on a whim we were promised:

- No downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside (thanks DD)
- Trade talks in parallel with divorce negotiations
- Trade deals in areas totalling double the size of Europe before Brexit negotiations finished (we've currently got zero)
- £350m per week for the NHS
- We'd owe no money to the EU on Brexit
- Turkey would most likely be joining the EU

Basically, every positive we were promised turned out to be a total crock of ****.

 

This whole episode is a tragic catalogue - or even comedy - of errors - except it’s not funny at all.
Firstly, holding a referendum where the Leave option was not clear
Secondly, not exposing lies (on both sides) and holding people to account for them BEFORE the vote.
Thirdly, not having a plan for Brexit at all
Fourthly once the outcome of the vote was clear, it should have been an all-party coalition delivering it, as the demographic transcended party political lines.
Fifthly, once the Tories did decide to go it alone, not appointing Brexiteers who actually WANTED Brexit in the first place to lead the negotiations instead of remainers
Then if that wasn’t bad enough, hold a general election to weaken yourself to a point where nothing will ever get passed through parliament.

What a f-up.

 

Wiz, a few points on that.

The £350m was not a lie - fair enough I'll concede that. Though it was still a stupid thing to put on a bus, considering in reality everyone knows that not even close to that figure will be put towards the NHS in addition. It was a VERY intentional bending of the truth.

Donald Tusk / Cameron's comments regarding peace - These are not lies. Probably the single best thing about the EU is keeping a densely populated area with many different political institutions peaceful for 70 years. This is indisputable. Outside of the EU, with less intelligence being shared, and being in the middle of a Trump/Putin sandwich, this may be a dramatic comment to make but certainly not incorrect. There is a security risk with leaving the EU, I'm sure everybody can accept that.

Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts - The cuts have certainly occurred and we are already feeling it economically, in addition to the Tories' best efforts to **** it with or without Brexit.

David Cameron claimed we could manage immigration inside the EU - Yep I'll concede this is an absolute lie.

Companies leaving in their droves - Again, this IS happening, massively. There's a fantastic thread on OTIB where KITR is citing dozens of examples of this happening. Even Jacob Rees-Mogg, the main Brexiteer, has moved all of his business interests to Ireland!

That article is over 2 years old mate. Not applicable now at all and over half of it is total nonsense, in my opinion of course. Having said that, both campaigns were abysmal and I won't pretend that the Remainers were angels.

 

I was very careful to mention that BOTH sides lied in my earlier post.
If this had been 2 companies bidding for someone’s custom then they would have been hauled before a trading standards tribunal for false advertising.
It’s crazy - it’s illegal to do this when someone is trying to choose which gas or electric company to go with, but perfectly acceptable when people are trying to make an informed choice on the future of our country.

 

This is what Labour achieved [ only goes up to 2009 ]at a time when our oil income peaked at trillions of £'s and quite aware of the election date. everyman and his dog knows that when something is put in the bank it takes a time ...be it days weeks or years to spend depends on how the " the account is handled" income paying bills [ or loans back ] government spending is no different.

Where have I critised labour? I am basically stating facts … again it is well known fact labour is brilliant at mishandling loans and money, whilst the tories are able to take out loans and be a bit more prudent in handling them. How else would you have managed to have paid back [ the black hole of £100bn was actually more as the last year is not on those figures ] and run the country on some of the "£ x" amounts that labour were saying they would do with NHS, OAPS, CARE, and a whole host of other things ! Easy to say when not in power [ as it thank goodness could never happen otherwise ] without totally destroying this country …..
OH and what term would you use to describe it! your action that is …..suicide?

 

the only point at mo I will answer /GIVE OPINION TO..
this was a first, bit like inventing a V2 ROCKET .. you don't know how it will pan out until you build it / start it! it was a one sided loaded argument … stay and we continue to pay and suffer at the hands of a unelected group of foreigners that squander money and jobsworth's!
leave and a whole host of unkowns lie before us ……..

 

don't think it was actually telling lies! more like bending the facts to fit their arguments ...typical politics!

 

JGF, we're in a format where it's basically impossible to reply to every point but I'll come back on the final part of your post.

who what where when? it was always going be tough and to be so has an up and a down - David Davis said this. It's plastered everywhere.

that is happening, or don't you listen to the news? - So why did Brexiteers say that we'd have these 30-40 trade deals done and dusted before the end of the 2 years? That is the lie.

As for the rest of your post, you're actually backing up my point! Brexiteers lied about Turkey joining the EU, us owing the EU nothing, etc and you're agreeing with me.