Off Topic we [ BCFC 606 ers ] debated IN or OUT and now

as has been posted in the media for the last 18 months or more!

Very gradually MP's who DO NOT need to spout off "headline grabbimg often shouted comments" in an effort to pursue their own agenda like number 10 or leader of the tories are quietly pointing out such things and the media is catching on … using terminology like CORBYN'S only interest in this is number 10 and speaking on half of all the labour MP's, but of course the vote is secret no one will know who voted which way !!! In this respect appeasement is not in JC's VOCABULARY... given an opportunity to have all he desires put into the agreement he would still vote against ...and in anycase what is his alternatives to what is on the table ….. NONE other than this is my opportunity to try and backdoor way it into number 10. He has kept quiet for 18 months!

This is called austerity the result of a multi billion black hole in the coffers of UK brought about by overspending by LABOUR, they used trillions of oil revenue sold our gold and we ended up with Tony BLIAR handing over to poor old GORDON to take the flak....

[/COLOR] indeed they did and will encompass BCFCRobs post. It was possible but not able to confirm unless you asked every person who voted what party they vote for.

It is not hypocrisy, but 2 different things … voting for a government labour vote tory vote etc etc … voting for being part of something that dictates what you do how you do it what you have to pay is a different kettle of fish …. so not hypocrisy

 

DONT AGREE WITH ANOTHER VOTE.... The original question was basically simple …..

IN . . or . . . OUT

I say basically because there was a period where the in or out put forward a myriad of what they expected to be issues, it was done by either side taking a stance on what they thought may or may not be good or bad as a result.
There was a very cover of the agricultural policy on Country file … both sides Boris v David of the pro's and cons
also coverage of the fisheries, and umpteen references to NHS AND THE FALLACIES SURROUNDING COSTINGS etcetc both for and against advantages.
MIGRATION was also covered along with percussions that may affect our border force so no one can say it was just a question of IN or OUT ………… "WE DIDNT KNOW"
We did know parts of it would hard, and we did expect resistance from the EU after all we were a positive £ / euro contributor not a negative one, and bear in mind that since the first dozen or so countries set up a euro market that was gainful for all, "the attempts at making it a federalist state" .. and sucking in other negative economy countries has changed the picture.... and our future in the market would become a millstone around our necks as the EU is run by unelected hypocrats ...jobsworth's "got any bent banannas mate?" … sorry had to bin them they were 1mm from being straight ….Hi Mr trawlerman got any fish? .........….sorry no, hardly any to catch as we killed off all the small ones to get our meagre quota of proper sized ones and the euro trawlers are fishing the same bits.....
No body knew what the negotiations would throw up, and we are the template of what will follow .. so that is why Barmier and his cronies have made it so hard. Also the mouthy ones Corbyn etc are aware that it has to be 2 separate stages.. the paper /law/ action to leave and the second stage polishing the fine detail from the draught paper of what will happen after we have left...

ignorance is no defence in law … individuals are assumed to know to commit …. and in much more diluted way when you vote you vote for what you know have seen heard checked out etc etc … unless of course you are one of the I always vote …… because …..!

 

We voted on a principle, in or out , the result was out ,
I have no problem having another vote once The FULL details are known whether we accept what Europe offers us , or walk away altogether, but to have another on the principal in my view would cause irreparable damage to our democracy.
Another vote wouldn’t make things better it would just divide us all over again and drag the whole thing on even longer.

 

Are you and RR both unable to answer the question? I asked to the people who voted out, what was it you wanted?
I know what’s been in the media, are you saying that the stories they are reporting are yours and everyone posting on this thread?

 

We don’t know what the brexit deal is, they havent even started negotiated it yet , this is just about the framework for those negotiations and what happens if we can’t agree at the end of the negotiations .
It will give the EU a veto over us leaving a situation where we would continue to pay into the EU , but with no voting rights , and no ability to strike our own trade deals with other countries , they would have no incentive to give us a decent deal to leave because they would have us by the short & curlies , & neither would you have the opportunity to have a second referendum , as there would be no point as they wouldn’t let us back in under our old terms , why would they when the old terms would be worse for them than the ones we would then be under .

 

That’s easy to answe ROD , the ability for our elected representatives to decide how we are governed and to chose our own rules and regulations. Then we can boot them out if we don’t like what they do.
So the ability to decide our own immigration rules for example , not be dictated to , to have the ability to do trade deals with other countries if we so wish , but the point is WE get to chose , it’s our ability to make our own decisions that’s what I voted for .
Will we get it? , not if we cave in to EU’s demands no, the way they have acted over these negotiations is the reason I voted to leave in the first place , they are arrogant, and other than us , none of them has the balls to give their own electorates the opportunity to vote in or out, I wonder why ?, I think they are freoghtened the result would be the same.

 

Thank you. But like you said will we get it?
Immigration is one that won’t change though. The one thing that will now be in our favour is we can choose to have more who will benefit our country.
I believe that out of the qualified Indian doctors from what I read, we were only allowed x percent as the rest of Europe wanted a percentage, to all countries. (This is one example)

 

The only way you ever get anything from bullies is to stand up to them .
I have no problem with immigration as such , I just want us to be able to decide the levels etc for ourselves,
At least then if the politicians get the levels wrong we can boot them out , Europe is becoming less democratic by the year. I believe once we leave it will go at a pace, as we were often the ones that brought sanity to the party , without us to put the brakes on things the EU will quickly become USU , (United States Of Europe). Then god help us

 

On the other side of the debate ROD I do realise there are many advantages to being in the EU, I didn’t vote leave without much soul searching , in the end I thought on balance out was marginaly better , however I did think I was gonna be on the losing side and would have happily gone along with the result in the knowledge I had lost the debate , what annoys me is that others won’t gracefully accept they lost.

We lost to Hull in the play off final , we couldn’t revisit it a year later because we didn’t like the result the first time around.

 

So you Remainers answer this

Do you think it is right a unelected and money grabbing mob who the British people did not vote for are allowed to dictate what goes on in the uk.

If your answer is yes then you are truly not interested in the safety and best interests of this Island.

 

Depends on your views.
Living in Wales there are plenty of stuff that is EU funded. There is probably lots over your side but I only get Wales as a local news to comment.

But I’m struggling to understand what you mean about safety?

 

There is an argument that says the Eu has stopped conflict in Europe , I would counter that by suggesting our ancestors fought 2 world wars and many gave their lives to ensure we have the ability to rule ourselves from Parliament , not to be dictated to by unelected people in other countries, just food for thought .

 

I live in Wales too , I think what he means is that as a whole we pay more into Europe than we get back , we are among a small amount of country this applied too. I’m no financial expert , but I’m sure this is accurate , I’m sure others can give you the figures.

 

£1,979,025,442. Is what us Welshies have had of them, since 2007.

Now me and you know, that relief motorway around Newport will never happen now or be completed by the time I retire so I will never get the benefit of it.

Being in the heavy side construction sector, I felt safer staying in than coming out.

 

Appreciate what you are saying ROD , but we are part of the U.K. & as a whole the U.K. pay in more than we get back , as for being in the construction industry and feeling safer , that may, or may not , be a justified position , you are in a better position to judge than me, I accept. on its own though it’s not a reason to stay in the EU , the ramifications are much wider .

 

Rod does your company construct abroad ?
The construction industry was alive long before we slipped into the common market without a vote and will survive long after we leave the EU I am so proud that I voted out and hope this country will get it house in order when we finally get out of these shackles.

 

It’s a World wide company. And yes construction took place before we entered. But that was then and this is now. All I know is we are feeling a hit with big figure redundancy happening right now with Brexit one of the contributors.
And before someone says no it’s not a contributor, I would rather take the word of the finance team in work.

 

Companies also use it as an excuse ROD, the chances are the redundancies would have happened anyway, I’m not sure how leaving the EU would justify getting rid of people , we haven’t even left yet. How do they know for sure that won’t get equally as much work once out of the EU . No one knows yet.

 

Not at all, we started this year on sound footing with expansion more likely.
We are not talking housing market builds, but main infrastructures and you can gauge that by enquiries and forecasting.
Like I say, no offence but I will take the word of the finances and forecasting teams.
If you’re not worried about it, then that’s great but this discussion is not about changing people’s mind.

 

exactly if the result became in then the outs would want a vote … EU has already stated there would not likely be a reversal