I hope that you guys won't get upset or feel slighted by this thread - it is just me being me. There are no racial overtones or discrimination, just bugbears that I wanted to get out in the open. I do not feel proud that Mo Farah has won the 5000m for Great Britain. He is Somali-born and resides in Portland, USA. I could not care less if Andy Murray wins Wimbledon or any other tennis event. He is, in my opinion, a miserable Scotch tit. The same went for Greg Rusedski - the man is not English. I am brutally honest, the names Baltacha and Keothavong do not exactly fill me with national pride. Supposedly, Samoan-born Manu Tuilagi (an illegal immigrant) is the future of English rugby. The English cricket team is littered with foreign born players. Many of our sports teams appear to have given up on home-grown talent and rely on imported players. This, to me, is so sad. Does sporting success mean that we must forsake the use of our own sportsmen and women in favour of the quick fix? I would rather we didn't. The only reason I would want any other of the UK teams in the major footballing competitions is so that we can thrash them, humiliate them and take the piss after doing so. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland may as well be Bolivia, the Gambia and Sri Lanka for all I care about them and their people and heritage. I do not rejoice in the Union Jack. It represents everything that gets on my nerves about this country and its mindset. To be honest, I only really care about Wessex and Anglia and living in the memory of Alfred the Great. I sound really horrid, but please believe me, I'm not. I just prefer to exist in an alternate 9th century England. Thanks for sticking with this thread. Ponders.
Well I'm half Scottish, half English so naturally I'll disagree on a few points. I personally feel a strong bond between the "jack" is a good thing. I also like the fact that athletes like farah want to repay a country that he see's supporting him. I was absolutely delighted for him when I heard he won.
"Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland may as well be Bolivia, the Gambia and Sri Lanka for all I care about them and their people and heritage" Actually not sure how this sits with me as I may be misinterpreting it. Is it England or bust?
What exactly will he repay by winning this medal, SuperC? It is for his own personal gain, nothing else. It is the point of the thread. England is all that matters to me. Just like the Scots think only for Scotland. When the English think that way, it is perceived as racism. When the Scots, Welsh and Irish do it, it is national pride. Bollocks to that.
I'm all for filling English sports teams with Somalians, Samoans, Welshmen, Lithuanians, Polish, Russians, Iraqis, Saudi Arabians and Australians... ...Afterall I'm Irish so it doesn't bother me
The scots only think for Scotland? Very broad view, my Scottish family don't share those sentiments. I don't mind you discussing your national pride, but it seems like there is an element of provocation towards the other home nations.
That is the honesty I like, WWOCB. Deep down, everyone thinks protectively about their own heritage, people and precious cultures. It is thrown in the English's faces everyday, but then we get pilloried for speaking out - like John Cleese and David Starkey. But all they did was speak the truth. SuperC, I am sorry if it comes appears that way, but it simply is not the case. You said yourself, that you are half English, half Scottish so why would your family think that way? If I was half English, half Scottish then I would probably be supportive of both nations. But I'm not.
Personally, I don't mind if you call me British or English, to me it makes little difference. I can understand your position entirely though, Ponders, saying you're proud to be English often conjures up misleading images of EDL skinheads when that plainly isn't the vast majority. Sadly, nationality is no longer fixed - many more people now spend parts of their lives in various countries and can thus claim to represent them. Look at the Boateng brothers for instance (Germany and Ghana). I feel much more pride whenever Alistair Cook scores a century than when Jonathan Trott does. :
My dad is entirely Scottish- wishes our teams well as England gave him a platform to ply his trade and help raise a family. I'm sure many more people like pietersen, Farrah etc feel the same way, hence why they would like to represent England. Quite a noble thing in many ways.
1905 was significantly after the ninth century Ponders! I agree with you about Murray, but generally take the opposite view. I find it quite distasteful when the Irish, Scots and Welsh do their anti English "national pride" thing, so rather than join them I embrace the union where possible and ignore them. Don't know enough about Farah to comment but I do know that the flag of the United Kingdom is the Union FLAG as Jacks are only flown at sea. Also, I don't know how old you are Ponders but I'm guessing that you would be at least approaching your life expectancy in your 9th Century utopia.
CaptainB, you are spot on with the EDL comparison. I am in no way connected to those guys, and never ever will. But my mindset is probably more unique than most patriots. I don't mind admitting that I have certain mental-health issues which have caused me over many years to become very obsessed with English history, and the Alfred era in particular. I am engrossed in the period and the ideal of Wessex. I apologise if my prose transmits itself as robust and combative.
Leaburn, you jest, surely? The Union Jack/Union Flag are the same thing. Jack refers to the Jack-Staff - a slang term for flagpole. It is widely attached to the Royal Navy because they were famous for their flagpoles. Pietersen, Farah, Tuilangi and the vast majority of immigrants come to this country for one thing: money. That includes the Irish, Scots and Welsh. Do you really think Mo Farah crossed that line and thought about the pride of England and how he was repying it for giving him his opportunity? That is such a naive view. He would represent Outer *****lia if they handed him a golden ticket to fame and fortune. People are mercenaries and use England as a means to line their pockets. Anyone who believes differently is deluding themselves. Or do immigrants cross so many borders to get here so that they can sample our cuisine and revel in our bawdy seaside humour?
Ponders - I have to disagree with your sentiments with regards to Mo Farah, he came to the country as a refugee at the age of 10 and has always said that he feels that he grew up here and therefore is British as is his family. I view his situation very differently to those adult sportsman who come to the UK to gain citizenship to improve their chances of playing international sports (Hape for example in Rugby union). Farah also didn't start distance running until he was here and got pushed in to it by a teacher at his school so its not like his pedigree was nurtured somewhere else and then he came here to earn more money through sponsorship or to get better funding as I feel many athletes do. Also his residency in the US is something he considers a sacrifice (to be away from home and family/friends), which he undertook because he need to be somewhere he could train more efficiently with a better standard of training partner to help he move from being a decent runner into a world class contender. As for what he will give back to athletics/this country hopefully his victory will spur on many younger people with an interest in running to give it a go and try to be the best they can be - having world champions and the extra exposure they get through the media can only be a positive for athletics in this country. As for the England v Britain debate I am proud to be English but I consider myself to be British first as I think the UK is stronger together than each country would be individually. The individual heritages of the constituent countries is important in making us a diverse nation and the competition (sporting or otherwise) between us is something that has developed over generations but I'm always a fan of supporting British where possible (Athletics, Olympics, Tennis etc). But this subject is one which will always be down to an individuals point of view so each to their own. Sorry to go on.
No I do not jest, I am aware of the derivation of jack, however the flag of the Union is The Union Flag. By usage they are the same, granted, and I am being pedantic but there are people to whom the distinction is very important.
SuperC, who mentioned the St George? South Coast, you hit the nail on the head. Individual opinions! But to suggest that England is stronger because of the union with other countries is folly - certainly as far as Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are concerned. England does not need to be in union with such nations. They need England - not the other way round. A quick vote would see the vast majority of English people happily casting the others aside. Do you think Mo Farah's success will propel the popularity of athletics to the dizzy heights that the sport of Curling now enjoys within the inner-cities?
I have no real British/English/Patriotic feelings to be honest. I prefer to see myself as a human being! Controversial... But I ****ing hate the Royal Family.
I mentioned it- just something I've never understood. When we celebrate st georges day, one that's seen as a day of pride for some, we too are celebrating a man who wasn't born in England. Just a passing thought, which perhaps has no relevance to the thread.
As a Scot myself, one of my favourite authors is Thomas Hardy, and The Mayor of Casterbridge is my favourite book of all time- I've read it 3 times. I hope you don't mind!
