Seems May has offered Gove the Brexit Secretary job and he's said that he will take it on condition that she tear up her deal and start again. Plainly she's not going to do that, so he's got to resign too, surely?
Agree Leavers would have a clear idea what they wanted/expected but the 'I know what I voted for' brigade are saying it in a way that suggests all people who voted to leave also did so based on exactly the same hopes/expectations, to me its an assumption no one has the right to make.
Jesus wept!! It wasn't a presumption, it was a promise made by the government and PM that a leave vote would mean leaving the customs union and single market. Why is that so ****ing hard to understand?
Just seen Theresa May’s press conference. She was very good, resilient and determined, as she was in the Commons earlier today. Of course, she is 99% certainly up **** creek without a paddle. But she will win a vote of confidence, because Mogg and his mates are noisy but relatively few in number. As Ken Clarke has just said, if she went for leaving the political side of the EU while staying in the Single Market and Customs Union while negotiating a long term relationship/ trade deal she would probably get the sensible side of the Labour Party and the SNP on board.
They should have mentioned that on the ballot then, Col. We voted to “Leave”. We didn’t vote for or against the details.
Exactly Rangercol, Cameron stated that Leave meant the customs union and single market and that it was a once in a lifetime vote and that we should “KNOW” what we were voting for, so we duly voted, but if I recall he didn’t say what we would get out of a remain vote, after he failed miserably to get concessions out of the EU, and I made my mind up to vote out simply because the EU showed their true colours and failed to recognise the sovereignty of a member government, the corrupt EU and it’s unelected leaders have only one Agenda and that is a United States of Europe with total power over member countries with the power to set their taxes, their interest rates and their laws without recourse from said members and I find that totally unacceptable, I voted leave so I didn’t find myself living in what was becoming a dictatorship. According to some on here that makes me a racist, a nincompoop, a buffoon and a Cnut I don’t care what they think, because in all honesty they appear quite happy to let the EU do their thinking for them and I find THAT unacceptable as well, GEORGE ORWELL 1984 was right a giant state controlling all without recourse, maybe I’m the John Hurt character cause I don’t want that and I think freely.
Because it was also a promise that there would be no hard border in Ireland, and those two promises are not reconcilable. The deal put forward is the best possible attempt at squaring that circle. The deal does involve leaving the single market, and leave the customs union, but establishing a common customs area. Slightly more complex and nuanced than envisioned? Yes, shock horror.
Can we leave the customs union and single market at a time of our choosing or will we be reliant upon our EU masters to choose for us (which of course they never will)? I presume you're happy living under an undemocratic, protectionist regime? I believe that, had a brexiteer been in charge of leaving and not Stan's mates in the civil service, along with a remain PM, a solution would have been found to the Irish border. Slightly optimistic? Shock horror.
I'm all ears - what's the solution? Don't worry, not expecting you to come up with it alone, I'm sure someone else has something you can cite. Perhaps the ERG? Come on...happy to wait... And yes, perfectly happy living within the largest democratic free market in history.
It's totally undemocratic you condescending bafoon. **** this, we're having the same argument on here over and over. I'll give it a break and see what our wonderful politicians and our masters in Brussels can come up with.
Great solution chap, you should be in charge and we'd no doubt have it fixed in no time. Oh wait, yes, you totally ignored that challenge like all Brexiteers. There is an elected parliament, and our elected ministers represent us on the council of ministers. Elected Governments across Europe host the presidency of the council in turn. As such, to say it is totally undemocratic is either ignorant or idiotic.
Sky News BreakingVerified account@SkyNewsBreak 11h11 hours ago More Copy link to Tweet Embed Tweet Shadow Brexit Secretary Sir Keir Starmer has told Sky News the draft Brexit agreement is a "miserable failure of negotiation" and says Labour will vote against it
Maybe the taxes will be lower? Laws may be good? Oh not those bloody laws everyone hates but can't name ! Only messing fella. I don't and have never felt the way you do so I struggle to understand your feelings of being dictated to. I have never seen a problem being a member of the EU, makes sense considering our country is in Europe.
I guess it's understandable that you're grumpy if your own individual circumstances are adversely affected by Brexit. If Brexiters are moaning that they are not getting what they voted for, at least Remain voters now know what Leavers had to suffer when the 2016 referendum vote was announced. There's no point in blaming Leavers in wanting to leave a failing, autocratic, and increasingly federal EU, or Hotel California, as it is proving to be. Mistakes have been made. The first was to make a Remain supporting minister, PM. However much she repeated the "Brexit means Brexit" mantra, we now know that, far from meaning a clean Brexit, for Theresa May it meant paying the EU £39 bn plus and continuing to pay billions annually to remain in the Customs Union indefinitely or until the EU releases us, giving the EU the rights over our trade of goods while we have no say in making the rules, preventing us from entering our own new trade deals, no foreseeable end to free movement of people, not enforcing UK fishing rights etc. We now have to endure the Maybot repeating a new mantra, that this is a good deal for the UK. It looks like she won't get it through Parliament. Corbyn is seeing his opportunity and has his white flag ready to wave at Hotel California. In my view, the Parliamentary Leavers need to demonstrate to the nation why leaving on WTO terms is economically feasible and that there is a technological solution to the Irish border. If they can do that, and I believe they can, then let's do it. Because this People's vote stuff would be hugely damaging to the country and if we remain in the EU on a 52/48 split in favour of Remain or similar, the Brexit issue will never go away. There will be huge anger and massive cynicism within the Leave electorate who will see it as an injustice (and little motivates people more than injustice) - the only winners will be UKIP and far right organisations that our nation could well do without.
Excellent post Goldy. I still don't understand how the Irish border issue could be solved. As far as I'm aware there is no such technology invented to.deal with the issue.
Correct. The tech solutions don't exist. See in depth piece here: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/irish-border-brexit-tech
