I wouldn't think a dead weight in a static position would be as good as a rider who can move with the horse's stride. A quote from someone on another forum. "Theory I've read is that the jockey basically sits almost on top of the fulcrum of a horse's motion where it would have the least effect. A dynamic load versus a static load." Sounds good to me .... I think.
Looking at the weights of today’s top jockeys would tell you dead weight doesn’t appear a good idea. Even in the past I can only think of one top lightweight jockey and that’s Willy Carson.
Doug Smith was pretty good at 7.8 but in those day some horses only had to carry that much so he was good value at that weight. I used to have a list of all jockeys' minimum riding weight and it was thought to be a good idea to see which horses had a good jockey riding at his minimum riding weight. There has to be a good reason for that and it always seemed obvious to me that dead weight has to be a disadvantage. What I have a problem with is knowing the extent to which it is disadvantageous given all the factors mentioned above, particularly the weight carrying capacity of the horse under different conditions (eg going, distance, type of track,, wind direction etc etc). Depending on the weight carrying capacity of the horse, an extra 10lb in dead weight could have an effect ranging from very little to a lot more than 10lb. Just imagine, a horse with relatively low weight carrying capacity running a cracking race (but 9th, 6l behind the winner and eased towards the finish when no chance) under 9.10 on soft going over 10f at an "unsuitable" track ridden by a lightweight jockey (say 8stone). Decent time in the conditions. It turns up in a valuable handicap at the bottom of the weights (8 stone 2) ridden by a top jockey weighing 8 stone 2, over 9f on his favourite track and more favoured ground. According to the strict form book the horse is 7lb behind several other horses and priced up at 20/1. It doesn't take much, with all the information, to conclude that this horse must be capable of a race winning time and that it is a cracking ew bet. Leading up to the race the odds are halved. Sounds like the perfect plot
The jockeys weight Ron. Whenever you ride a horse the riders weight is always in the irons, unless you want to fall off.
I think you have misunderstood what this is about FP. We are talking about dead weight, not the weight of the jockey
Forgot about Doug Smith, one of the greats. I feel racing's emphasis has changed since his days. Handicaps were of much more importance in those days. So lightweight jockeys were more in need. I think I read the other day that in 1965 Redcar's Zetland Gold Cup was the third biggest prize of that season. It is only since the mid 60s that Stakes races have made champions. Handicappers were made much more of. The Autumn double was a huge thing. It doesn't compare today. Can you imagine that a week or so before the 1960 Derby that the eventual winner was entered for the Zetland with a weight of 7 stone 11 pounds? I agree with your point about a jockey riding at just above his body weight.
I'd never heard of the Zetland Gold Cup so went and had a look around. There was a horse called Tale Of Two Cities who made off with the race in 1956 as a five year old. It would seem that the owner a Mr. J. Mc.Lean and his trainer might have pulled off a bit of a coup with the horse. I don't know what was going on with the him, maybe he was an injury plagued type or maybe he just went off the boil. But I can only find four recorded runs. Quite often the records are way off. I've seen some reports stating an animal as having only a few runs while others have them with heaps of races under their belts. Anyways they knew right from the get go, that Tale Of Two Cities had a ability. At the only two year race I can find, he won at the Curragh, in an event restricted to two year olds, the G3 Railway Stakes. The next race I can find of him is in the Irish Guineas where he finished second to Arctic Wind in 1954. Next up, he was entered for the G1 Irish Derby where he was sent to the start as an odds on favourite, with the Cock o'the North Billy Nevett in the saddle. Tale Of Two Cities was roundly expected to give his trainer his long awaited success in the Irish Derby. The Gallinule Plate winner Hidalgo and Tale Of Two Cities looked to have the race between themselves until Paddy Powell brought Zarathustra with a whirlwind finish. The latter won by a length and a half from Hidalgo, with Tale Of Two Cities a half length off in third. The Gunieas winner Arctic Wind failed to stay the trip. Zarathustra would go on to win the Ascot Stakes, Sandown Stayers’ Stakes, Goodwood Cup and Shakespeare Stakes. In 1956 Zarathustra, with a young Lester Piggott in the plate, would win the Ascot Gold Cup and in the process, and win the distinction of being named European Champion Stayer. Back to Tale Of Two Cities. His only other run I can find is in the Zetland Gold Cup of 1956. As stated, I know nothing of what happened to the horse between the Irish Derby win of 1954 and his win in the Zetland Gold Cup win in 56, but I'm leaning towards a serious lapse in form. Maybe some else can supply further info. By now, the horse was in the hands of a trainer, a Mr. Fawcus who was working on behalf of the same owner Mr. Mc.Lean. The reason for believing that Tale Of Two Cities have trained off or gone amiss, comes down to the feather weight the horse carried in the Zetland, 7 stone 8 pounds. He was ridden by W.Bently. With a postage stamp on his back, he greeted the judge as a 10-1 winner. Imagine trying to round up a 7 stone 8 pound jock these days.
I understand your point. Say one jockey is 8st and has to carry 8lb and another jockey is 8st 8lb. The 8st jockey carries 8lb in the saddle. It’s carried in the saddle because that’s the centre point
I'd say it is carried in the saddle because that is the only practical place to put it - you can't stick it behind the horses ears
Maybe they should give the jockey a heavy outfit to spread it around the jockey. That's about the closest to natural weight except it would weaken the jockey
If the horse is good enough you could stick a sack of spuds on it’s back and it won’t matter - jockeys are overrated anyway
