In Euro yes. Close to the fees actually paid for Seri and Morata. Winks has been injured for a year but will shoot up in value if he plays consistently. I think Dier and Winks will be in the top 10 in their positions in the world by season end.
Utter confirmation bias. You are only thinking of the backwards / sideways passes that all midfielders make. Over the past few games Winks has made multiple impressive surging runs forward that don't seem to fit in with your pre-determined judgement.
I think that you (and others) are way too harsh on Winks. He suffered a shocking injury and has struggled to fully recover his confidence and touch. The same thing happened with Bale after his injury in December 07. It took him until September 08 to play again but did not rediscover his form until October/November 2009. Winks has impressed since the Barcelona match imho and needs people to be a bit patient. No one admits to wanting Bale sold back in early 2009 but plenty thought that at the time.
The one thing I am now questioning is the captaincy I have never believed a keeper makes a good skipper and with hugos antics of drink driving and his costly mistakes I think it's time he was dropped and Gazza to be reinstated in goal and in my personal opinion Lamela would make a good captain as he leads by example on the pitch with his never say die attitude. Just my opinion I might be wrong what does everyone else think?
Agreed RCL, people are very quick to judgement. Modric was described as too small and frail and would never make it as a PL player.Vertonghen was not committed and lazy. and Trippier was lightweight. Winks impressed most of us before his injury by rarely misplacing a pass. He is one of those players who doesn't have too many clever tricks in his armory but is the kind of solid professional that all teams need. He is slowly getting back to his best and could be another Perryman for us in the end. I am usually in agreement with Dier Hard's assessment of players and I remember him telling us about Eriksen before we signed him, so I value your judgement DH but in your comments on Winks I think maybe you are wrong.
I would go with Vertonghen Rocky. I see what you are saying about Lamela he is one of our most determined players but I would tend to think he needs another year to consolidate his place and his fitness. Vertonghen is one of our most important players, we are missing him right now and I have seen him carry the ball upfield to try to wake us up when we are flagging a bit. He looks like a captain to me.
Mate the site is broken .anyone who thinks morata is still 85m is wrong. Heres a few more (in euros) Davinson sanchez - 96m Trippier - 36m Rudiger - 81m Christensen 45m Cahill 17m Vertoghen 25m Lovren - 42m Joe gomez - 78m Bellerin - 50m Mustafi - 49m
Multiple surging runs... you mean about one or two in a game? He’s tragically basic, his form has improved in recent matches but still not to the level we need. He’s had about 4 great games in a Spurs shirt. As I’ve often said, Mason was a far more useful player yet we sold him to accommodate Winks.
It’s not harsh though, RCL. It’s being brutally honest, many just don’t want to admit it because of their sentimental judgements towards an academy player. I don’t really get the point in comparing him with Bale and Bale’s injury. Bale showed phenomenal promise at an early age, Winks has never done that. Winks can “hold his own” in the sense he has a maturity on the ball and doesn’t panic but he doesn’t actually offer the side any unique special ability/ attribute that another player can’t offer and more. For me he’s our Wilshire, adored by fans - and rightly so due to club connection - but ultimately that adoration clouds people’s judgement.
The comparison with Bale is relevant for me cos what he did was in League 1. He played well in a three month period for us before his injury...a bit like winks in my opinion. Guess we'll have to wait and see ... here's hoping you are wrong. (I know you hope so too) coys
I recall reading that he's started less than 20 PL games. I'm not certain that he's the answer to our midfield issues but MP and Gareth Southgate believe in him. He has plenty of ability and promise. Yes, more of it needs to be delivered but at the same age, David Beckham was on loan at Preston. We desperately need home grown players and barring Oliver Skipp or Luke Amos leaping ahead of him, he's got a season or two to go before we can let him go (if that's what happens). If MP has doubts about him, he'll buy another player to compete with him and we'll have at least 4 and probably 5 players capable of playing in the pivot, no matter how good he is...or isn't. Currently, Harry Winks represents a smaller issue than Mousa I, Moussa II and Big Vic. It's a bit like worrying about toothache when your arse is on fire!
That's the beauty of this place, mate, if we all agreed it'd be boring. I'm fully aware my view on Winks is part of a minority but I can't help the fact I just don't rate him. When you consider over the past 9 or so years, our two main CMs have been Modric and then Dembele, for me, Winks is miles off of either player. I feel like in central midfield terms, we're regressing in that department, defensive midfield we're doing great in, Scotty Parker was superb, Sandro before the injuries was superb and now we have Dier taking the mantle who's also superb (albeit a patchy 17/18 season) but central midfield is in a decline now that Dembele is struggling and I really feel we need to invest heavily in that area.
Their ratings algorithm rates Davinson Sanchez very highly. He is often in the top two or three central defenders. It also heavily weights young players and long contracts to calculate a price. I certainly dispute some of those values but they are more likely to be right than anything you or I come up with as it's based on lots of data.
For sure, I definitely hope I can be proven wrong but being the stubborn **** that I am, I don't believe I will be. As I just said to Spurf, I think we've seen a big decline in our central midfield. From Modric, to prime Dembele to now struggling Dembele and Winks, it's tough for me to watch. With Modric and Dembele, they're two players who could do things 99% of players in world football couldn't do (but with different attributes), with Winks, I see CMs like that on a regular basis, the guys who can hold their own but never standout, never produce the big dollar stuff and I can't see that changing with Winks.
The other beauty of it is that everyone thinks they are qualified to make judgements based on limited observations. Imagine a brain surgery forum: we could all watch an operation and then claim that the surgeon messed up by cutting on the wrong place etc. Success in modern football is driven by analysis of data, not opinions. It's great to discuss what we think but Pochettino and Levy know 100 times what we do.
I think you underestimate the knowledge of fans, Power. You seem too consumed with this idea that data is the be all and end all to things in football. @BobbyD has already pointed out flaws in the CIES thing you seem to be currently standing by - and for what it's worth, Bob's **** hot with numbers and data. I'm fortunate to say that having been a season ticket holder for the past 4 years and a regular to Spurs for over 12/13 years now, I've been witness to some great players, both in and out of a Spurs shirt, I don't feel I need some form of complex data anlaysis site to tell me if a player is good/ high value or not, for sure I'll check the odd stat site to read up on a player I may have never heard of but in general, I make my decisions and observations based on what I see as I think that's the best and most honest way. Many fans often have similar views to those of the professionals (managers/ pundits/ former players etc) with regards to players/ clubs, there will be a few differences from time to time - hence myself and the Winks stuff - but in general football fans know their stuff and have a strong knowledge of the game. The only real difference is that many of us don't follow up our love for the sport by taking it to a professional standpoint with regards to qualifications and then progressing towards some form of occupation.
You are exaggerating my view. Data isn't the only important thing by any means. And anyone who has watched a player play 100 times has enough information to form an opinion. And I've no real opinion on CIES. But if you are going to spend 40m on a player you need more than a few scouting trips and data on goals and assists. You need proper analysis of the type CIES undertake. I've no doubt that all the top teams have this. None thought Seri was worth 25m. I'm going with that being correct rather than your view. Incidentally this is another reason why signing better players is hard. If our data is similar to CIES then the best that can be realistically achieved is turning someone with an 80 score into 82 with a 60:40 chance of success. That will probably cost 50m. You can see why Levy might not want to stretch to 60m.
There are far more top clubs than there exceptional players like Modric, Bale and Dembele at any one time. Real are unlikely to find a direct replacement for Ronaldo, similarly Barca with Messi and us with Dembele. The managers may have to adjust the balanc and formation of their team to compensate as Real are finding out this season. The clubs that have these sort of players are obviously very reluctant to part with them and so the secret is to find the next generation of this type of player. We hit the jackpot with Modric, turned Dembele into the player he used to be and were lucky that fan pressure did not result in the premature sale of Bale. We certainly have the coach, we just need the luck to spot them before anyone else
