I agree with Cosicave, the car was unable to be a Red Bull beater, but Lewis could of been far closer with it than he is now "at best" and I mean at best behind by 30 points. I shall be putting my cards on the table early in saying the Lewis/Jenson combo will come into fruition next season with them taking the WCC ahead of Red Bull. The Jenson way is to win the WDC title now, Lewis has to see this and he has to stop ignoring the alarm bells that are saying he's doing things wrong, it's never too late to change with the times, go with the flow or just face an uphill battle... Lewis has qualifying sorted in his arsenal, now is the time to stop doing mavrick stunts and think about the bigger picture.
Do you think the Mclaren is better than the Red Bull? I think Mclaren could of won perhaps another one or two races (Barcelona and Spa) this season due to better driver performance from Hamilton but that is all, however he could of earnt a lot more points. I think if Alonso was driving the Mclaren this year or Button had better luck then they could of won about 4/5/6 races but that is it.
Interesting silver, why do you think McLaren will be WCC next year? Is it a hunch or is it to do with the EBD ban?
Vettel has got that "can't overtake" tag for a reason. He can't overtake. And to be honest, seeing as Hamilton is a faster driver than Vettel I can't see how Vettel would have won more races then him. Hamilton has made too many mistakes, because of some sort mental inability to accept not winning everything. If Button had had his wheel put on properly at Silverstone he would be making Hamilton look ordinary. Of course Hamilton is not ordinary in the slightest, but he is nowhere near as good as many of his deluded fans think he is. He is also certainly not the best overtaker. His abject performances in Cananda, Monaco and Spa prove that beyond any doubt.
I do think that Lewis has been rattled this year by Vettel's performance just as Alonso was once rattled by Hamilton. I also wonder how much his Monaco meltdown has affected our view of him this year and generally: how would we view his performance this year had that not happened? Probably not as harshly, I suspect. That said, it did happen and I have to agree that this has been his worst season yet, although there's still time to redeem himself a bit. Also, his team haven't helped matters with some real strategic howlers but he does need to calm down and learn a little patience. As I wrote on another thread, Vettel's talent aside, Red Bull are reaping the rewards of three years of great work refining what I think has been essentially the same car. This year's McLaren is a fresh design and should be better next year. I feel it's less likely that the Red Bull has much room for improvement left so, in theory, next year there should be a more meaningful battle for the championships. If Ferrari can step up too, we could have another thrilling season like last year's. But Lewis should learn a lesson from Alonso and just 'get over it'.
I don't think he has to change his style and I don't think he has to drive like Button... That's not who he is. What's missing, as Max says is a bit of patience.
Completely disagree with the top part of that. Vettel's main reason he got the "cant overtake" was last year when his car had no top speed. Everyone and his dog said that Button couldnt overtake before he joined Mclaren, as Mclaren have a high top speed, he is making overtaking look very easy. Look at 2008 and this year to see that Vettel can overtake, without crashing into people. I see Vettel faster than Hamilton too. Or atleast he's faster when he needs to be. (under pressure Q3 laps)
More like a gut feeling that they both have to accept their fates as drivers for McLaren and that this team is probably the best chance for equality and another WDC they will now have. Both will now be closer than before and Lewis will accept his fate that he has to stay at McLaren because no team will give him more. Red Bull is closed until Seb leaves, Ferrari is closed until Alonso retires, Mercedes is looking closed with Nico and Schumacher, they cant go anywhere unless they accept they will be bonafied number 2's. Now that all the contracts have all been sealed, Lewis and Jenson have to look into the long run and focus, they have to work together and stop messing around trying to get into faster cars. Jenson has become so different after his WDC year to now, qualifying is his only weakpoint, rain or shine he looks on top with the best, so just imagine what he will be like next year when McLaren build on this car, the years of experience is really paying off now. Webber and Massa can kid themselves all day long, they cant keep up with their teammates so they will be a liability for the WCC. Age and injuries are catching them up yet Jenson acts like a bottle of win, the quality keeps getting better. Yes they might get the odd race win over Alonso or Seb but they wont be able to keep doing it like Jenson is doing against Lewis. Whatever you do don't underestimate Jenson, i've been eating humble pie since 09 and eveytime I really believe he's going to go down like a stack of cards, he just keeps prooving me wrong. Lewis really needs to work with Jenson and I mean really work with him, not just as a teammate but as an allies, he has to stop thinking he's unbeatable and treat Jenson as an equal, then you will see a team not just as co-workers.....BUT BROTHERS!!! *cries* McLaren need to keep them together for as long as possible, they wont get another pairing like this even if they tried for another 20 years. Whitmarsh needs to sign them both up long term, group together, clear the air and try again next year without any issues to resolve "contract wise".
Great post, Silver. I can only add that your scenario does depend on two things: cutting down the strategic errors and getting some counselling for Lewis That was facetious: he wouldn't have got this far if he wasn't capable of doing what he needs to do next. Edit: what happened to the rep button? Has it moved? Has it gone?
Thanks for a brilliant answer silver. Your right about Button he does seem to just get better and better with age and this year he has put in a very classy performance. Your also right about Hamilton and Button needing to stay at McLaren given the situation at Red-Bull and Ferrari. I would question weather it is certain McLaren are going to evolve this car though as it seems to be designed around aggresive EBD'ing which won't be allowed next year so they will need to change things around as they were only 3rd best at silverstone. I believe a good move for Hamilton would be to fire fuller as his manager at the end of the year and bring in Mikka Hakkinen.
They are probably the most cohesive pairing on the grid when you look at it. They are able (and allowed) to fight tooth and nail and with this, there's no underlying tension and the other is always there to celebrate when the other wins Button really is a late bloomer. He seems to have really grown a lot since joining McLaren. I actually think that he has learned a few tricks from Lewis and Lewis could learn a few things from Jenson. I don't think that means that either driver needs to change but they certainly can help each other develop. I believe that McLaren have by far the strongest driver lineup on the grid right now. If they can get the best out of both drivers and clean up these crazy strategic errors that they'll be a force to be reckoned with,
Correct Max, Lewis needs to clear the air with everybody, but most of all with his father. I can still see friction between the two, I blame fame for that loss of focus. Family "REAL FAMILY, NOT NICOLE" is his strongest allies now, look at Seb and his father, they look like father and son and nothing will get inbetween them, his long term girlfriend is out of the limelight for her privacy. But Lewis looks uneasy with Anthony, did the divorce in the past leave some unresolved problems that we the public dont know of, does Lewis really love, LOVE! his father or does he see him more as a close friend? If Lewis wants to move on with his life, which all patients with psychological problems want in the end is just closier, to know it's been settled and that he can move on, if he doesn't it will keep digging at him until he does confront it and it will keep popping up. Maybe Lewis was affected by Monaco bringing up old wounds from his childhood, "Is it cause I'm black joke" setences he says they're are nothing but "jokes". I see them as surface problems that have been on his mind for a long time. His father is more likely to have suffered racial abuse when he was younger and maybe a bit of bitterness carried on to Lewis, the thought that he might hate my guts only because I am black. Psycology is such a fantastic subject to read about, you discover things about people and even yourself of issues that you can dig at and find the source why they act like it, it's brilliant! Alonso looks to have accepted that he got beat by Lewis, maybe he finally got over why he acted the way he did towards Ron and Lewis and thought he was a bit of a pratt, knowing he was better than that, or maybe because he was never actually beaten toe to toe by somebody before, bringing up childish tantrums that he didn't notice. Now that he joined Ferrari, he feels complete, happy that he is considerd the best on the grid and the reason why they chose him over others, he is recognised and respected.
exactly and that thought is making lewis adopt a win or nothing mentality where he must challenge seb at all costs even if it means a driver in the barriers, most of the time him
nonsense, McLaren have had the best car for most of the season, if Hamilton hadn't screwed up so many times, or Button had such bad luck, and the McLaren engineers make soo many mistakes, Seb wouldn't be that far ahead. I think Lewis needs his dad back, to dump the celebrity lifestyle and stop believing his own hype, otherwise he will end his career with a single WDC to his name, which would be a real waste. I think having Vettel turn up on the scene and steal his 'wunderkid' title has also really effected him, so he makes worse mistakes than he did in his early career in an effort to prove he's the best.
Ha! What can I say… I'll wind in my instincts for a moment and simply say that I believe you are in the wrong ball-park with this one Miggs!
I have heard more than one person suggest this but it is certainly not something that I would subscribe to and nor do most pundits. (not suggesting they always know which way is up either.) I would argue that the RB7 is probably one of Newey's finest cars ever. Not only because it is the an immensely quick & aerodynamically efficient car, but because it has been supremely reliable, unlike some cars that Newey has built in years gone by. Had they have had that level of reliability in the car and the engine last season, there would have been no contest.
Interesting comment here on the topic from the_roadie (posted on muzz) Even before this thread got posted I had an opinion on this (now there's a surprise - not!!) I don't see HAM doing anything much different this year to last year or his WDC year, it's just that this season his same "moves" haven't come off - it's not as if he's in control of either team strategy or other drivers' moves, either. If he goes on in F1 as he started then given the car, and a smigdin of luck going his way, he'll be back for more WDCs. This is his season to get all the poor results out of his system all at once !
how many points have McLaren lost? 2 poor dnfs for Button, Lewis has lost 3 wins at least, how many drive throughs have they had? How many poor strategy calls have McLaren made? RBR had the best car at the start of the season, and the car was so good then that even without KERS Webber was able to come from the back to land podiums, the safety car has saved Seb on more than one occasion, McLaren have had the best car for a while, it's just the total ****-ups that cost them, the anomalies of Valencia and the EBD banning in Silverstone not with standing McLaren have had the best car since about race 4, and lets not forget that not only would McLarens points be higher, but also RBR points would be a lot lower. 2 wins while your opponent dnfs is upto 100 points difference. I didn't say they would be winning, because McLaren have 2 drivers where RBR really only have one, but it would be a damn sight closer, RBR are showing why consistently finishing is so important this year. Seb won at Spa, but who was the fastest? Button, had to make an early pit-stop because he damaged his nose because of a another poor qualifying **** up, was running last and still caught up with the RBRs, Australia - RBR's Malaysia - RBR's china - best car - won Turkey - RBR's spain - best car shoulda won (without torro rosso blocking probably would've) Monaco - best car shoulda won (Safety car saving Seb) Canada - best car won Valencia - RBR Silverstone _ RBR Germany - Best car - won Hungary - best car won Spa - Best car shoulda won That's the way I've seen it anyway, giving McLaren 7-5 as far as 'best car' is concerned. And Seb has driven magnificently this season, showing exactly why he should be given no.1 status.
