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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    The Maybot refusing to be interviewed by Channel 4 and Channel 5 isn't doing her any favours, even if you don't particularly want to hear what she's got to say being selective is the sign of a Leader heading for the endgame...
     
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  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    cant imagine it will be a long queue

    Syria ready for refugees to return, Foreign Minister tells UN
    By Emma R. 1 October 2018 No Comments
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    big thank you to the countries that hosted refugees during the Syrian civil war when he was speaking at the UN General Assembly on Saturday.
    At the same time, he declared that the war is over and that the country is ready to take back its citizens again, Reuters reports.
    He addressed a special thanks to Russia, which is currently investing large sums of money to help the Syrians who fled to Europe return home.
    “Thanks to Russia, every effort will now be made to ensure that the refugees return and have their basic needs fulfilled,” said Moualem, according to the Russian public service channel RT.
    At the same time, the interest in the EU to encourage the now large Arab population in the Union to return home, has been low. And this despite the fact that the group has serious problems with benefit dependence and criminal activities.
    Many EU countries even pay refugees to stay in the country – and withdraw benefits if they move home again.
    In Syria, however, one welcomes the support of the rest of the world to make the restoration easier. Walid Moualem says his government is happy to receive assistance with all forms of reconstruction in the country.
    “We welcome any kind of help with reconstruction from those countries that did not participate in the aggression on Syria,” he told the UN.
    But “the countries that offer only conditional assistance or continue to support terrorism, they are neither invited nor welcome to help.”
    He also said the conditions were fine for them to return, and he blamed “some western countries” for “spreading irrational fears” that prompted refugees to stay away.
    Last, he denounced US, French and Turkish forces operating in his country as “occupying forces” and demanded that they leave immediately.
    Moualem said the foreign forces were on Syrian soil illegally, under the pretext of fighting terrorism, and “will be dealt with accordingly.”
    “They must withdraw immediately and without any conditions,” he told the assembly.
    A couple of weeks ago Dalai Lama said in Malmö that; “Europe belongs to the Europeans, and refugees should return to their homelands and rebuild them” – and more and more world leaders agree with him. The EU, the UN and the Globalists, however, do not.
    Time will tell who will win the battle. All we know right now is that the pro-mass migration and open borders side is getting weaker, while the nationalistic side is getting stronger every day.
     
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  3. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    more consessions



    May agrees curbs on trade to break Brexit deadlock

    Britain prepared to stay in customs union until deal struck over Irish border
    Oliver Wright, Policy Editor | Sam Coates | Francis Elliott
    October 2 2018, 12:01am, The Times
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    Theresa May’s proposal would keep Britain tied to European customs rules on goodsTIMES PHOTOGRAPHER RICHARD POHLE
    Theresa May is preparing to limit Britain’s ability to strike free-trade deals after Brexit in a significant concession to the European Union aimed at breaking the deadlock in negotiations.
    The prime minister is ready to propose a “grand bargain”, according to her colleagues, which would keep Britain tied to European customs rules on goods after the transition period ends in December 2020.
    No 10 will claim that the UK has left the customs union at this point, but by keeping key rules the ability to agree trade deals would be curtailed for many years. Britain would also accept demands that goods entering Northern Ireland from Britain must meet European standards, with the potential for checks in the Irish Sea.
    Downing Street hopes that the concessions…
     
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  4. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    As I suspected.
     
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  5. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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  6. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    We were lied to! Secret document FCO 30/1048 kept truth about EU from British for 30 years
    A SECRET document, which remained locked away for 30 years, advised the British Government to COVER-UP the realities of EU membership so that by the time the public realised what was happening it would be too late.
    By Paul Baldwin
    PUBLISHED: 00:04, Tue, Oct 2, 2018 | UPDATED: 12:04, Tue, Oct 2, 2018
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    As Theresa May prepares to face delegates at arguably the most fiercely divided Tory Party Conference for a generation in Birmingham this week Express.co.uk examines the legacy of one of the most important documents in British political history.
    Almost all of the shocking predictions – from the loss of British sovereignty, to monetary union and the over-arching powers of European courts – have come true.
    But damningly for Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath, and all those who kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s, the document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules for almost five decades.
    The classified paper, dated April 1971, suggested the Government should keep the British public in the dark about what EEC membership means predicting that it would take 30 years for voters to realise what was happening by which time it would be too late to leave.
    That last detail was the only thing the disgraceful paper – prepared for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) – got wrong.
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    The document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules (Image: GETTY)
    Related articles
    This 1971 document shows exactly what the plan was
    Annabelle Sanderson
    The unknown author – a senior civil servant – correctly predicted the then European Economic Community (the EEC effectively became the EU in 1993) was headed for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy, which would constitute the greatest surrender of Britain’s national sovereignty since 1066.
    He went on to say “Community law” would take precedence over our own courts and that ever more power would pass away from Parliament to the bureaucratic system centred in Brussels.
    The author even accurately asserts that the increased role of Brussels in the lives of the British people would lead to a “popular feeling of alienation from Government”.
    But shockingly politicians were advised “not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures… to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community”.
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    Prime Minister Edward Heath kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s (Image: GETTY)
    They were told to preserve the impression that the British Government was still calling the shots rather than an unelected body of foreign politicians – and that the ruse would last “for this century at least” – by which time Britain would be so completely chained to Brussels it would be impossible to leave.
    Document FCO30/1048, which has now been declassified under the 30-year rule, still shocks and angers Brexiteers.
    Annabelle Sanderson, a Brexit expert and former advisor to Nigel Farage said: “Despite all the claims from politicians of many parties that the EU was not about becoming a central state this 1971 document shows that is exactly what the plan was.
    “Arch Remoaners from Labour, Lib Dems and the Tories need to check this out and ask themselves why they are MPs if they don’t actually want Westminster to be in charge of this country.
    “We voted for Brexit what needs to happen is a proper clean break from Brussels so we can once again become a sovereign nation with money being spent in this country on services we need and have Parliament and courts making and ruling on the laws.”
    The writer and journalist Christopher Booker, one of the founders of the satirical magazine Private Eye, said: “Here was a civil servant advising that our politicians should connive in concealing what Heath was letting us in for, not least in hiding the extent to which Britain would no longer be a democratic country but one essentially governed by unelected and unaccountable officials.
    “One way to create an illusion that this system was still democratic, this anonymous mandarin suggested, would be to give people the chance to vote for new representatives at European, regional and local levels.
    “A few years later, we saw the creation of an elected European Parliament – as we see today a craze for introducing elected mayors, as meaningless local figureheads.”
    The pro-Europe Sir Edward Heath was leader of the Conservative Party from 1965 to 1975.
    He died in 2005.
    In 2015 he was named as part of Wiltshire Police’s Operation Conifer investigation into historical child sex abuse.
    Detectives said if alive – he would have been 101 – he would have been interviewed under caution over seven claims, including the alleged rape of an 11-year-old, but that no inference of guilt should be drawn from this.
    Operation Conifer was closed earlier this year after officers found "no corroborating evidence" of any sexual abuse by Sir Edward and no evidence of a conspiracy.
    Heath, a soft-right politician from a lower middle-class family, was born in Broadstairs, Kent.
    He served though the Second World War in the Royal Artillery, rising to rank of Lieutenant-Colonel.
    Although he said he had never killed anyone he was part of the Normandy Landings in 1944 and wrote extensively of the damage his gunners inflicted on the German occupying forces.
    In September 1945 he also commanded a firing squad that executed a Polish soldier convicted of rape and murder.
    He was made a Knight of the Garter on 23 April 1992 and became Sir Edward Heath
     
    #22226
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  7. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    No not possible the EU will bow down to all our demands... coz history or something
     
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  8. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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  9. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Boris, who according to one commentator gave a second rate speech as well as a second rate politician can yesterday, only managed to squeeze two outright lies in. One that May and other cabinet ministers could be tried under a 14th century law about sovereignty if they gained an agreement based on Chequers. The law was repealed 51 years ago. Second that the EU is trying to ban selling eggs by the dozen. Completely made up, closest thing to it a 2010 suggestion that eggs could be sold by weight as well as number.

    Still, he went to an expensive school and a top university, speaks with a plummy accent and uses long words and inept analogies, so we really should respect him.
     
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  10. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    It's fine for him to lie though, the remainers lie and the big buffoon is going to lead us to the land of milk and honey
     
    #22230
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  11. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    In all fairness it was from a Guardian reporter so what do expect? His article was also called 'second-rate' today. Other than Mays dancing (which was nothing short of embarrassing) she did quite well and didn't mention Chequers? maybe she is moving on from that. Anyway it's time to move on now. Get the best deal and get out. :emoticon-0148-yes:
     
    #22231
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  12. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    That girl has rhythm
     
    #22232
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  13. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    It was okay (not really) when she walked on but when at the podium she started again trying to sing the song and failed. One or the other not both. TBH I would have advised her not to dance.
     
    #22233
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  14. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    #22234
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  15. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    The Boris Johnson delusion
    He cannot save a party that is already dead.
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    Tom Slater
    Deputy Editor

    3rd October 2018
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    ‘You need a populist to beat a populist.’ That has been the argument for a Boris Johnson Tory leadership ever since Theresa May’s disastrous snap election proved that a slogan-repeating husk just wasn’t going to cut it.
    But leaving aside the question of whether Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn – the dreariest orator the British left has ever produced, who is far more popular in gentrifying Stoke Newington than in struggling Stoke-on-Trent – qualifies as a populist, it is not clear the public agrees with Team Boris. According to a YouGov poll at the beginning of September, Johnson is slightly more popular than May – her ‘favourability’ rating is -26, compared with his mighty -22 – but fewer people think he would be a better PM. Another poll published last week suggests May has a better shot at beating Corbyn than Johnson does.
    This is hardly good news for May, whose Soft Brexit (aka Not Brexit) Chequers plan has been rejected by the European Union, British voters and a good chunk of her own party, nor for the similarly embattled Jeremy Corbyn – in YouGov’s May-v-Corbyn ‘who would make the best prime minister?’ tracker poll, ‘not sure’ is currently on a 12-week winning streak.
    But following his incendiary speech at Tory conference yesterday, in which Boris all but launched a leadership challenge and demanded the government ‘chuck Chequers’, BoJo-backers need a bit of a reality check. Even after the snap election, last year’s humiliating conference, the Windrush scandal, the Chequers betrayal, and the fallout from the Chequers betrayal, the British public still seem to be at least as wary of Boris as they are sick of the feeble May.
    That Johnson had conference attendees queuing around the block to get into his speech at that Conservative Home fringe event yesterday – while cabinet ministers have struggled to quarter-fill the main auditorium – proves only how dreadful his competition is and how out of touch Tory members are with Tory voters and public opinion more broadly.
    Let’s not forget, Tory membership – which topped three million in the mid-1950s – is currently at around 124,000, dwarfed by Labour’s 570,000 and even edged by the Scotland-only SNP’s 125,000. In his speech, Johnson lambasted those in the cabinet who felt the way to beat Labour was to ‘ape Corbyn’, but his supporters seem to have forgotten that just as a Glastonbury crowd singing ‘Oh, Jeremy Corbyn’ doesn’t necessarily translate into electoral success, nor will a thousand or so Tories applauding the former foreign secretary’s bouncy, adjective-laden one-liners.
    Boris Johnson is often bashed for all the wrong reasons. Since the Brexit vote, he has become a proxy target for the broadsheet press’s fury with the electorate for voting Leave. This summer he was shamefully smeared as a racist for daring to make a joke about ultra-conservative, misogynistic Islamic dress, in an article in which be argued against a so-called burqa ban. He has been presented as some kind of born-again hard-right ideologue, when he often appears to be little more than a middle-of-the-road liberal-ish Tory swept up in the populist wave.


    Before the Brexit vote he was, in his own words, ‘veering all over the place like a shopping trolley’ about whether to back Leave or Remain. On Brexit day, addressing the press at Vote Leave HQ, he looked like he was at a funeral. Whether or not he only backed Brexit to further his personal political ambitions is still an open question.
    At the moment, it looks unlikely Boris Johnson will lead the Conservative Party any time soon. While he may be popular, for the moment, among members, he is loathed by many MPs in the parliamentary party, and, under the Tories’ undemocratic leadership process, they will be the ones to decide whether he makes the final ballot.
    However, his ascendancy, such as it is, reminds us how hollow the Tory Party now is. What was arguably the most effective political party in modern European history has become little more than a collection of individual politicians, battling it out for power and prestige, with their respective positions on Brexit (sincere or not) convenient weapons.
    Beyond the leadership/Brexit drama, this conference has revealed a party that has no idea what it is for, that is devoting more sessions to ‘remaking the case for Conservatism’ than actually doing so; that wants to big up the free market while posing as the true protectors of ‘our NHS’; that talks up freedom while continuing to preside over an increasingly paternalistic and censorious state.
    Boris can’t save the Tory Party. Not least because it is already dead – in mind if not yet in body. For those of us on the progressive side of politics, that’s nothing to mourn. But for Eurosceptics, left-wing or otherwise, it is a tragedy that the fate of Brexit – the one great hope we have for radical, democratic change in this country – has become bound up with this dreary battle of unfavourables.
     
    #22235
  16. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Ex-Boyfriend Says Dr. Ford Coached Friend for Polygraph, Had No Fear of Flying
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    Melina Mara/Getty Images)
    2 Oct 201843,970
    A man who dated Brett Kavanaugh’s primary accuser, Christine Blasey Ford, for six years claims she had no fear of flying, no fear of small spaces or rooms with single exits, and once used her psychology training to prepare a friend for a polygraph examination, according to a Tuesday Fox News report.
    In a sworn statement to the Senate Judiciary Committee dated Tuesday, the California man claims to have met the then-Christine Blasey “in 1989 or 1990,” then had been romantically involved with her for about six years from 1992 to 1998. In that time, he claims to have witnessed Ford, then studying psychology, coach a close friend as she prepared for government administered polygraph exams. Fox News’s Shannon Bream posted a redacted version of the letter on Twitter:

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    The man’s claims appear to contradict Ford’s testimony under oath before the Senate Judiciary Committee last week, where she told outside counsel Rachel Mitchell that she “never” gave “tips or advice to somebody looking to take a polygraph test.”
    The alleged ex-boyfriend also claims that Ford frequently flew, including in small propeller aircraft, without complaint over the course of their relationship and had no fear of small spaces or rooms with only one exit. Ford’s claims that phobias of these things have plagued her since the early 1980s as a result of a 17-year-old Kavanaugh attacking her have been central elements of her story.
    Further, the man claims Ford never mentioned being a victim of sexual assault in the eight years they knew each other and never once mentioned Kavanaugh’s name. Finally, he claims their relationship ended amid infidelity and credit card fraud on her part. He does, however, claim that he “finds Ford believable” and did not “want to become involved” with the investigatory process.
    Exactly when the Senate Judiciary Committee staff came into possession of the letter is not clear. Mitchell’s specific questioning about polygraph prepration during Ford’s committee testimony, however, may indicate committee staff had some knowledge of the allegations laid out in the letter at least as early as last week.
    This is a developing story.
     
    #22236
  17. DT’s Socks

    DT’s Socks Well-Known Member

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    I would take the Guardian ****e long before the places you echo post from Ellers
    I don’t believe we will get out at this rate
    Looks to me like politics and buying time imo

    By then there will be a general election People will fully understand the details and there will be a landslide revolt to stay in
     
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  18. DT’s Socks

    DT’s Socks Well-Known Member

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    Developing Story from Kiwi !
    I recommend posters on mobile up their data allowance
     
    #22238
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  19. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    #22239
  20. DT’s Socks

    DT’s Socks Well-Known Member

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    Abba FFS

    May looked very uncomfortable having to do that script ... just seen it and a little bit of sick came up
     
    #22240
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