Off Topic UK / EU Future

[superhorns]

The UK. is liable for every penny that a person has paid into the British pension system, at any stage. This applies also to EU. citizens who have worked in Britain, paid into the system, and then returned home.

Are they limited to what they have paid in?

 

[colognehornet]

Are they limited to what they have paid in?

Exactly the same as someone in the UK. It would be calculated on a points system - so many points = 40% and so on. What I am not certain of is when a person has a right to a pension (or part of it) from 2 countries. If Germany pays all of my pension in a few years (the British part as well), then there would be a reciprocal arrangement covering Germans in the UK.

 

[wear_yellow]

Are they limited to what they have paid in?

It's based on NI contributions paid, just the same as women who never paid the "full stamp" in the past. Also if they paid reduced contrubtions due to having a company pension scheme. It's rather more complicated than Koln would have us believe. Mind you all of those EU nationals working on the Black than he tells us about will get f</>uck all!

 

[colognehornet]

It's based on NI contributions paid, just the same as women who never paid the "full stamp" in the past. Also if they paid reduced contrubtions due to having a company pension scheme. It's rather more complicated than Koln would have us believe. Mind you all of those EU nationals working on the Black than he tells us about will get f</>uck all!

I agree that it is a lot more complicated than I suggested, but the general drift is based on contributions paid. I suspect a lot of money will go unclaimed as a result of people having worked only a couple of years here and there. There is also the problem that immigrants are often over proportionally self employed in comparison to the native population, which makes the whole thing more complicated.

 

[superhorns]

Trump has successfully renegotiated the US NAFTA agreement with Mexico and Canada and is now setting his sights on the EU. He has threatened a 25% tariff on European cars unless he can make a deal based on fairer trade. Does the EU really want a no deal Brexit scenario on top of this. A European recession is the likely outcome if common sense cannot prevail.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

I really cannot take you seriously SH. One minute you are complaining about Troy not being a team player, and then you laud the Tory MPs who are doing their best to ruin the team that the PM is leading. You tell us that Troy should shut up, but then say that Boris is wonderful writing disruptive pieces for the Torygraph. You have admitted that you haven't joined the Tory party to support it, but to have a vote on seeing it splintered even more if that is possible.
Today we have seen Hammond telling the conference that austerity will have to continue. The very thing that had the people who suffered most from it to vote as they did, who were led to believe it was not the fault of UK economic policies but that of the EU. I would start to concentrate on how this Tory Brexit, and yes it is them that will be remembered for it, will go down come the next election, because unless some form of deal is arrived at there will even worse problems than exist today.

 

[superhorns]

I really cannot take you seriously SH. One minute you are complaining about Troy not being a team player, and then you laud the Tory MPs who are doing their best to ruin the team that the PM is leading. You tell us that Troy should shut up, but then say that Boris is wonderful writing disruptive pieces for the Torygraph. You have admitted that you haven't joined the Tory party to support it, but to have a vote on seeing it splintered even more if that is possible.
Today we have seen Hammond telling the conference that austerity will have to continue. The very thing that had the people who suffered most from it to vote as they did, who were led to believe it was not the fault of UK economic policies but that of the EU. I would start to concentrate on how this Tory Brexit, and yes it is them that will be remembered for it, will go down come the next election, because unless some form of deal is arrived at there will even worse problems than exist today.

You are mistaken, I have not posted about Boris writing articles. Hammond is clearly a remainer that is peddling project fear, sadly you have fallen for most of it so far.
It is obvious to most except a few senior civil servants, the PM and yourself that the Chequers option is a dead duck. The ERG Group have shown everybody the basis for a deal which Barnier can live with. Pushing a deal which is unattainable only increases the likelihood of a no deal.

I have joined the Tory Party to chose a better leader, we need a proper Brexiteer, Rees Mogg for me.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Come on SH. Until he shot his bolt Boris was your great hero. You wanted him as PM. Do I have to go back and show how much you wanted him? I do not argue that Chequers is a good plan, but seeing as all the talk is about further compromise on it we will see what comes next. Everyone with a gram of common sense knows the ERG have not produced a workable plan, as stated by the EU and laughed at by most of the UK media. A deal on how we leave is not a simplistic thing which is obvious to all except those who are in this strange ERG cult.
With regards to you coughing up to have a say in the next leader, I hope you will be prepared to dig a little deeper to help pay the possible £2M fine for breech of data regulations. When a party cannot even manage to get a simple phone app right, what chance of designing a customs system that will work? Totally laughable.

 

[superhorns]

Come on SH. Until he shot his bolt Boris was your great hero. You wanted him as PM. Do I have to go back and show how much you wanted him? I do not argue that Chequers is a good plan, but seeing as all the talk is about further compromise on it we will see what comes next. Everyone with a gram of common sense knows the ERG have not produced a workable plan, as stated by the EU and laughed at by most of the UK media. A deal on how we leave is not a simplistic thing which is obvious to all except those who are in this strange ERG cult.
With regards to you coughing up to have a say in the next leader, I hope you will be prepared to dig a little deeper to help pay the possible £2M fine for breech of data regulations. When a party cannot even manage to get a simple phone app right, what chance of designing a customs system that will work? Totally laughable.

Much of what the ERG has put forward has been worked on by the former Brexit Secretary for the past 14 months. It was the inept intervention by Robbins that led to the production of the illfated Chequers plan that you desperately cling to like a raft in a storm.
I'm still waiting for the rising of your mythical third party to dominate UK politics.

Your French example looks rather sick at the moment.

 

[colognehornet]

You are mistaken, I have not posted about Boris writing articles. Hammond is clearly a remainer that is peddling project fear, sadly you have fallen for most of it so far.
It is obvious to most except a few senior civil servants, the PM and yourself that the Chequers option is a dead duck. The ERG Group have shown everybody the basis for a deal which Barnier can live with. Pushing a deal which is unattainable only increases the likelihood of a no deal.
You do not have a mandate for a hard Brexit, either in Parliament or amongst the electorate SH. Any deal has to have the agreement of both the EU. and be voted for by the UK. Parliament, and you would be well advised to support any deal which TM. comes back with, no matter how patched up it appears. I know that many hard Brexiters such as yourself are hoping for a no deal situation ie. Hard Brexit by default. However, such a situation could well end up in no Brexit at all. If TM loses that vote in Westminster, there would probably be a vote of no confidence and a subsequent General Election. Would the EU. extend the Article 50 period to give the UK. time for such a thing ? In all probability yes, because we all know that a Labour win would mean a second referendum, whatever they say now. Partly because the pressure for such a thing would be too much for Corbyn, and secondly because any Labour government is likely to need a coalition with parties which want a second referendum ie. Lib Dems, SNP or both. A patched up Norway type deal is probably the only way out of this - it satisfies the conditions of the referendum, and could be seen as a kind of halfway house by both sides. Go for more and you may end up with nothing.

 

[Markthehorn]

Mrs May is going to make a speech about immigration post Brexit.



Suggestion is high skilled workers from the EU will be given more importance than low skilled workers who won't get any special treatment compared to migrants from other areas of the world.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45714413



Well that is the plan anyway but her plans don't seem to work very well or get a lot of support!​

 

[yorkshirehornet]

Mrs May is going to make a speech about immigration post Brexit.



Suggestion is high skilled workers from the EU will be given more importance than low skilled workers who won't get any special treatment compared to migrants from other areas of the world.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45714413



Well that is the plan anyway but her plans don't seem to work very well or get a lot of support!​

This is surely conference talk,,,,, as as we have discussed on here our best pool for unskillled seasonal work etc is clearly our neighbours as opposed to South Asia or Africa etc....?

 

[superhorns]

This is surely conference talk,,,,, as as we have discussed on here our best pool for unskillled seasonal work etc is clearly our neighbours as opposed to South Asia or Africa etc....?

Agreed, on short term contracts with severe penalties for any overstaying.

 

[colognehornet]

Mrs May is going to make a speech about immigration post Brexit.



Suggestion is high skilled workers from the EU will be given more importance than low skilled workers who won't get any special treatment compared to migrants from other areas of the world.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45714413



Well that is the plan anyway but her plans don't seem to work very well or get a lot of support!​

As Yorkie said this is only conference talk. It is time to start clearing up some commonly held assumptions about Eu. migration to the UK. The first is that we are talking about low skilled fruit pickers - we aren't. The EU. migrant population is, on average, more highly qualified than the native British population. This is particularly so when talking about the 'old' EU. states such as France, Germany etc. but also true for Eastern European migrants. The question is not about 'skills', but rather about language knowledge. Someone with a PhD in nuclear physics becomes, without English knowledge, a fruit picker - at least initially. All migrants are forced, to an extent, to lower their professional sights when going into another country, but this is no reflection on their 'skill' level, just a language difficulty.

The second point is that EU. migrants, on average, pay more into Britain's social security system than they take out - on average the balance is better than for the British population.

The third point is that the incidence of criminality is lower amongst EU. migrants than amongst other groups, and a few Rumanians in London do not change that.

A further point is that filtering out the large numbers of EU. migrants would be perfectly possible using means currently at our disposal and using existing EU. laws.

The last point is that you cannot expect the EU. to be sympathetic towards Britain's insistence upon hard borders when they themselves opened up their borders in the 1990s for Eastern European migrants against the wishes of the EU. which wanted a 7 year freeze on migration from the East.

 

[colognehornet]

As Yorkie said this is only conference talk. It is time to start clearing up some commonly held assumptions about Eu. migration to the UK. The first is that we are talking about low skilled fruit pickers - we aren't. The EU. migrant population is, on average, more highly qualified than the native British population. This is particularly so when talking about the 'old' EU. states such as France, Germany etc. but also true for Eastern European migrants. The question is not about 'skills', but rather about language knowledge. Someone with a PhD in nuclear physics becomes, without English knowledge, a fruit picker - at least initially. All migrants are forced, to an extent, to lower their professional sights when going into another country, but this is no reflection on their 'skill' level, just a language difficulty.

The second point is that EU. migrants, on average, pay more into Britain's social security system than they take out - on average the balance is better than for the British population.

The third point is that the incidence of criminality is lower amongst EU. migrants than amongst other groups, and a few Rumanians in London do not change that.

A further point is that filtering out the large numbers of EU. migrants would be perfectly possible using means currently at our disposal and using existing EU. laws.

The last point is that you cannot expect the EU. to be sympathetic towards Britain's insistence upon hard borders when they themselves opened up their borders in the 1990s for Eastern European migrants against the wishes of the EU. which wanted a 7 year freeze on migration from the East.

I should add to this that more than half of all foreign born residents in the UK. have been educated to degree level. Of the native born population the figure is less than one in three. In fact Britain has the highest qualified foreign born population World wide, which makes TM's comments frankly laughable. We can say that most of the EU migrant workers in the UK. are working in jobs for which they are overqualified, and this is just as valid in agricultural, seasonal work as anywhere else. This is why trying to differentiate 'highly skilled' from 'unskilled' is totally meaningless - it may work when talking about the native population, but it cannot be used with reference to immigrants. The criteria is language knowledge, not skills, and this does not just drop out of the sky. In the vast majority of cases immigrants (whatever their qualifications) do not have the necessary linguistic skills to practice their exact profession in a foreign language - school English is insufficient for this.

 

[J T Bodbo]

Much of what the ERG has put forward has been worked on by the former Brexit Secretary for the past 14 months. It was the inept intervention by Robbins that led to the production of the illfated Chequers plan that you desperately cling to like a raft in a storm.
I'm still waiting for the rising of your mythical third party to dominate UK politics.

Your French example looks rather sick at the moment.

So the government policy is being determined by civil servants. Sounds like we need a different party in charge, one with policies and convictions.

 

[yorkshirehornet]

So the government policy is being determined by civil servants. Sounds like we need a different party in charge, one with policies and convictions.

..a party which cares more for people? Not so nasty?

 

[J T Bodbo]

..a party which cares more for people? Not so nasty?

And one which seems to get its economic forecasts right. Tell me, when will the deficit be eliminated ? 2015 (copyright G Osborne, conservative). 2025 (copyright P Hammond Conservative) 2031 (copyright OBR, an independent branch of the Govt, created by.... The conservative govt. in 2010).
It is fair to acknowledge that the day to day deficit was eliminated in 2018 (2 years late) and all local authorities must be proud of their (forced) contribution to this goal, especially those like Northamptonshire. Also, all those people deprived of entitled benefits should be thanked for allowing their lives to be ruined to meet this (arguably pointless) target. By way of comparison, the US - that miracle of economic progress - has had 4 years (out of 58) since 1960 when it was not in deficit. However, in the UK, it has been more uneven. Of course nobody will believe the figures, (fake news) but the 3 years with the maximum surplus since the war have been 1950 (Attlee govt, 1970 (Wilson Govt) and 2001 (Blair govt). Can I detect a trend ? Only in the lies told by the (current) govt that they are the party of fiscal rectitude and economic competence.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Well another day of nothing from the Tory party conference. Probably what they wanted to keep the public totally uninterested. Yes a lot turned up to hear Boris bumble on, but then the grassroots believe that tugging the mop and thumping the lectern is a substitute for an actually thought out policy. The business department who should know keep repeating that falling out of the EU without a deal would crash the economy. Note that the "project fear" expression is no longer used by grown ups who question the reasoning. A small amount of cash was promised to 50 schools. Why should they get special treatment over the hundreds of others around the UK? Less money is to be taken away from councils as they fight to keep the care of the elderly to a minimum standard. Odds and ends of no great importance announced, but this is a conference devoid of anything outside Brexit.
The one startling piece however came from across the Irish sea when Arlene snarled that she was prepared to order her MPs to bring the government down if she didn't get her way. Did she really mean it, or was this just a little foreplay to extract another billion from the tax payer? No doubt May would be prepared to pay up as it would keep her in power a little longer, and the money doesn't come out of her pocket.
Still the PM was cross with Boris and rebuked Hunt for his ill thought out language. All the news media had a go over her lack of interviews. So as I said, nothing happened at the conference apart from some bad news from across the Irish sea.

 

[superhorns]

Macron - The French don't like him, The Italians don't like him and now the UK Brexit Secretary has accused him of unsavoury political posturing and tactics.

He is fast running out of friends.