Off Topic UK / EU Future
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Wrong Cologne, having lived in France I appreciate the differing cultures each European country has. This does not stop me outlining the obvious flaw in the 'free movement' concept when a nation, the UK, is vastly outperforming the rest of Europe. This lead to an unsustainable number wanting to migrant to the UK. This anomaly could have been sorted by a small tweak within the four freedoms but Cameron's plea was met with deaf ears. The consequence was Brexit. As it turned out this will be the best outcome in the long run for the UK without doubt.
The UK will now be able to manage immigration to suit the needs of the country, a basic right enjoyed by free most countries in the world.
So, your definition of 'vastly outperforming the rest of Europe' is.....
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Claim
UK GDP growth in the second quarter of 2018 was 0.4%. In the Eurozone it was 0.3%.
Conclusion
This was correct when the claim was made earlier in August, but the figures have since been revised, with both the UK and Eurozone growing at 0.4% in the second quarter. Growth in the EU and the Eurozone is higher in the previous 12 months than the UK. It’s projected to stay that way.
“GDP growth in the second quarter of 2018: United Kingdom: +0.4% Eurozone: +0.3%”
Twitter user, 10 August 2018
When this claim was made earlier in August, it was correct that in the second quarter of 2018, the UK’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) grew by 0.4% and the Eurozone’s grew by 0.3%. The Eurozone figure has since been revised to 0.4%, the same as the UK.
In the longer term, UK growth is below growth in the Eurozone.
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Information taken from an independent fact checking charity - not any organisation with an agenda.
You're still living in this cloud cuckoo land of believing that the whole of Europe wants to flock into the UK. The 3 most popular countries for EU. migrants moving within the EU. are Germany: 3.7 Million EU. migrants, Spain: 2.5 Million, and France 2.4 Million.
So free movement is fine as long as it’s for you. How ironic, that you and your sort are removing that option for the Nations youth.
You should probably acquaint yourself with the actual rules that can be applied to free movement and also what our current U.K. rules are for EU migrants.
The UK's growth rate was much much better than Europe for many years before 2018 which is why the Uk was flooded with unsustainable numbers.
The UK economy grew slower than Europe for the first time since 2010 ...
My main concern is for the UK, others are free to comment on their own countries.
You said 'the Uk is vastly outperforming the rest of Europe'. I have proved you are wrong. Perhaps also you should have read the rest of the article you quoted. Is it so difficult to say 'Sorry, I was wrong about that' ? Maybe it is.
My point was the UK outperformed the EU for seven years since 2010, The EU had a temporary blip in 2017 where its growth beat the UK. Italy will soon be in recession and other EU countries are struggling. Once Brexit is sorted the UK will revert to the recent norm and will always outperform the EU. Trump will soon put tariffs on EU goods once the UK leaves the EU. I'm surprised you got exited about such a small period when the EU's level rose from the usual pathetic growth level.
Many struggling EU countries remind me of Everton FC under Silva, plenty of potential but cannot get their act together. 
Is this a joke or something? Stormont has to have a say in backstop agreement. It hasn't sat for 20 months and there is little sign of that changing shortly. Surely this has to be more can kicking down the road. Can anyone make sense of it?
The ERG Group, Brexiteers and the UK now have a clear plan for Brexit which stands a good chance of being agreed by the EU. Yesterday the IEA produced a detailed paper based on guidelines already indicated by Barnier that it will receive a good reception. The UK cabinet needs to ditch the ill fated 'Robbins' Chequers plan, which was unacceptable to all, a.s.a.p. to give the new direction the best chance of success. Named Canada plus, Japan plus or even Plan A+, it will be the only option to a no deal situation.
The cabinet are set to agree not to give EU nationals preferential treatment after Brexit. As usual the LP are in complete disarray over forming a policy on Brexit apart from voting down any potential proposal agreed with the EU.
The cabinet are set to agree not to give EU nationals preferential treatment after Brexit. As usual the LP are in complete disarray over forming a policy on Brexit apart from voting down any potential proposal agreed with the EU.
If EU nationals are not to be given preferential treatment after Brexit then it is reasonable to assume that the EU. will also give no preferential treatment to British trade against that of any other country. Have you still not realized that these two things hang together ? Does it not concern you in any way whatsoever that the phrase 'Hard Brexit', or 'No Deal' Brexit, which is the same thing, could well mean that four and a half million people, on both sides of the Channel, could become illegal immigrants from one day to the next in such a scenario ? I am sick of hearing about 'trade' - I want to hear about how citizens rights will be protected after this fiasco is finished, and there is precious little on that score. Or is this violent incursion into the lives, and status, of those who simply used their rights of free movement being seen as a sort of collateral damage ?
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
Sadly the 'bigger picture' political strategists care little for the ordinary person. It never continues to amaze me how working people can be manipulated ... even though we have seen it throughout history
May is doing her best to sort out the welfare of migrant both in the Uk and in the EU. It is the EU that is using migrants as pawns as part of their bullying tactics. The UK is seeking a trade deal similar to that already agreed between the EU and Canada with a few plusses. This trade deal does not allow free movement or any kind of preferential treatment for EU citizens, why would the UK be treated any different?
You still don't get it. May is still trying to sort out a withdrawal agreement. Not until that is agreed will the trade talks begin. Leave without a common policy on the way forward, and you will spend years trying to agree a deal on trade. Seven years for the Canada one and that was without services. There will be a political statement attached to the withdrawal agreement about the aims of the UK and EU regarding trade. Once that is done then you can start to worry about sorting out which cherries you want to pick.
These are not migrants SH. They are citizens of the EU just as you yourself are - the question is what value does citizenship have if it can be taken away so easily ? This is a legal question which involves not just the UK. and the EU. but rather also the Vienna Convention, and the European Court of Human Rights, which even Russia is signatory to. You are prepared to put walls up against people who have, up until now, been close neighbours, fellow citizens, and allies of yours. Can you say that people who live only an hours train journey from London - 20 million of whom visit London yearly bringing much needed money into the cities economy, are to be treated in exactly the same way as someone from Papua New Guinea ? What about the Irish - are they to be treated in the same way ?
OK, current legal migrants. EU citizens will be treated as they were before free movement evolved, presumably so will UK citizens.
The UK can insist on the trade deal being linked to the withdrawal agreement with little or no ransom being paid until the trade deal is agreed. As the UK and EU are currently in full alignment a trade need take no time at all. May apparently has two weeks to revive the dead 'Robbins' Chequers proposal, after that the obvious ERG plan will no doubt be adopted.
Once again you confuse migrants with tourists to support your arguments. There is no such thing as a citizen of the EU, it has no legal basis, you are a citizen of the country of your nationality. Under the EU freedom of movement you can live and work in another EU country freely, but legally it does not make you a citizen. After Brexit citizens of EU countries will be able to visit the UK as tourists as they do today, but to live and work here they will need a working visa in exactly the same way as a citizen from Papua New Guinea does. It's really not all that difficult to understand.
If the EU political elite want to continue to make threats and put up obstacles, then it will be the ordinary people in Europe and the UK that will be the losers. They will of course be OK with their gilt edge jobs and pensions.
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