And this is where I'm having disagreements with you mate. You say nobody's been silly enough to get to 3 violations when in reality it's beyond the player's control and firmly in the umpire's control/opinion much like e.g. unsporting behaviour in football when the ref and only the ref decides it. It's at the umpire's discretion. If a coach coaches from the player's box, the player has absolutely no control over that. They wouldn't even be allowed to have a word with their coach to say 'stop it' as that in itself would be a violation. If the coach continued to coach and the umpire felt like doing so then he/she could give a 2nd and 3rd violation all of which is completely out of the players control. Breaking racquets, well just don't do it. Interestingly Paire [I think] recently destroyed 3 racquets and his chair and he got one violation. There's lots of evidence of repeated violations by men that go unpunished yet the first to get a game docked is a woman. Sexist, maybe, possibly, probably. Either that or Ramos just doesn't like her [or Venus who is the only other woman he's accused of being coached during a game].
the video of coach I saw clearly shows him gesturing and then nodding like she got it. I didn't see her in this vid. I presume the umpire... who has been backed by all and sundry now btw... saw this and handed down the violation. her smashing of a racquet was just ridiculous and meeting a penalty all day long. but the final act actually deserved throwing her out of the entire match imo. btw you mistake a guy doinf one continued act with here doing 3 separate acts of going back on the same thing and not taking the hint to calm down. that guy wants to smash up everything fair enough. give penalty. you are imo.mistaking two wrongs for a right. if people are getting away with **** here and there that doesn't excuse this nor should it. it's be like saying man Utd get away with abusing refs and surrounding them so we should get away with it too.
Been musing on the Serena Williams thing since it happened. First congrats to Osaka though, it's a shame all this overshadowed what was a great win for her and her first slam title. I watched the final live and at the time thought Williams was a self-absorbed idiot, throwing the proverbial toys out and throwing a tantrum because she was being outplayed and out-thought by Osaka and about to be soundly beaten on her own turf. Not the first time she's pulled this turn. Few days later and I haven't changed my mind, I actually think even less of her now, what she did was disgraceful and to turn it around and try to insinuate it was about equality, when she was baiting and 'bullying' the ref herself, is just a pathetic way to try and squeeze out of a situation where she knows she messed up, maybe not intentionally as she simply lost it, but there was a better way to deal with the situation for herself, for the sport, for the fans ... That could've involved just letting it go, play out the final after the first or second warning which would've given her the best chance to get back into it, no game penalty, a chance to recompose herself. Then immediately afterwards bring up whatever issues or prejudices she feels have been directed towards her. Oh yeah, the sooner her sadface sister retires and no longer appears on screen as well, the better.
She should've got angry at her coach after then for being so obvious with his signals, however unintentional. The umpire did nothing wrong. If she interprets Ramos' decisions (subjectively) as prejudice against her, fair enough she's free to make that point but not in the middle of the final of a Grand Slam, just play the match. Deal with the issues you have after as that relates to the involved governing bodies and tennis culture as a whole, not just one match. The reason he took the game was obviously because that's the penalty for a third straight violation but she was baiting him and disrupting the final for like 15 minutes and wouldn't drop it, which is ridiculous. You have to think about the opponent in this, it's really not fair on Osaka to have her standing around getting cold and out of her rhythm while Williams indulges whatever social cause or campaign she wants to go on right in the middle of a final. It's not a political rally, it's a tennis match. With Benoit Paire that was just treated as one continuous incident so only one violation for smashing.
With respect, I'm not mistaking two wrongs for a right. Rules are rules to be applied equally and that's where my contention is. As football fans who week in, week out, moan about consistency in officiating we should fully understand the concept. It's not nice to see it in any sport. Judging by other comments on here I'm guessing the remarks come mostly from a general dislike of Serena Williams. How many of you commenting liked her before this incident?
Hit and miss. Didn't like her when she was a power player (such as threatening the line judge). Liked her in her 30s and wanted her to win because she mellowed and also cause she's probably the best womens tennis player (I see to like players more as they get older) She's obviously gone down again in my estimation. You mention the consistency thing which is fair enough, we can all debate this but you have made it into a sexism thing and she has which we think is doing a disservice to the cause. IMO it's precisely this sort of stuff that takes away from the cause because she's playing a card. Someone like Alize Cornet has due cause to shout about sexism. Even Williams does regarding the catsuit comments from the director of Rolland Garros. This she doesn't have a leg to stand on and its poor sportsmanship. It's similar to the abuse Sterling takes. He's in the newspapers all the time for the wrong reasons. Partly because it makes news to target him (with probably racist undertones) but partly because he's an absolute cock end at times.
Serena is arguably the greatest tennis player of all time, man or woman, if you look at what she's achieved in her career (judging purely on realistic achievements, not debates like 'but women only play 3 sets' etc). You don't get to that level being a pussycat. All the top tennis players, men and women, are selfish, uncaring and ruthless at their core because that's what you've got to be to win, especially in a 1 on 1 sport. In becoming who she is now Williams has overcome undoubted prejudice, whether that's around race, class, privilege (or lack of), and a big part of her personality and character reflects this. I just feel she's gone over a line into ugly unsportspersonlike behaviour several times in her career that even other top players would baulk at and that seriously mar what are incredible accomplishments. For me that draws questions about her character, outside of the necessary ruthlessness that all the greats of the game need to have to get where they do.
Bobby you're one person I enjoy debating with because you put forward a good argument and you also seek clarification when you're not sure on a point made by the other person, not many [if any] people on here do that so thanks for trying to understand my side. I stand by my view that the rules have not been and continue to not be applied consistently or equally. I used to play tennis and I watch quite a bit. The CEO of the WTA watches a lot more and knows a lot more than me so if he too is claiming there's a degree of sexism going on, I'm inclined to agree with him while also believing my own eyes. Between the two players, I feel most sorry for Osaka but imo Serena has highlighted something, maybe not in the best way she could, that needs addressing.
If she had a serious concern around this particular issue then why hasn’t she raised it off the court previously? This was nothing more than a petulant multi millionaire tennis player losing her beans as she was being beaten in a major final. The sexism angle is a diversion from her making a bulb of herself.
Funny how she goes from fighting prejudice all her life to trying to use her position in the game to intimidate the Umpire and indirectly her opponent. She was losing and couldn't handle it.
fair enough. you've seen it. I've only seen replays. it did seem.like.she just kept going back over it over several breaks in play and tbf from the GOAT and such an experienced person I would wonder how she couldn't park it if it was real outrage. I therefore concluded for me there was a fair bit of gamesmanship being undertaken in it.
I think I've been entirely consistent for years on here over my distaste for privileged multi millionaire sports people throwing a tantrum whenever things go wrong for them and crying foul.
Maybe, although I do recall you calling her a fat ****ed hunk of meat, or something similar during Wimbledon. Pure love right there
thanks mate . People have their own views and beliefs in the world and we can't always agree. It's been fun debating bang on the money. I would rank her as the best womens player ever even if she doesn't surpass surpass court. As much as she is a power player, she actually has such variety to her game as well and pulls off some great shots. Her mobility is decent and she's probably the best server ever on the womens side. The only thing she lacked when she was younger was the hunger to win games and maybe a competitor (like the mens game) could have drove her to higher levels.
