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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    seems the yanks dont care about his domestic policies either

    The UK's Labour Party has effectively become a hate group
    by Michael Rubin
    | August 27, 2018 12:00 AM
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    The United Kingdom increasingly has a hate problem: Jeremy Corbyn may be its head, but the Labour Party has become its body.
    (AP Photo/Matt Dunham)
    The United Kingdom’s Labour Party, which produced six prime ministers over the last century, has effectively become a hate group. Whether Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is responsible for the transformation or whether it was the party that enabled the likes of Corbyn is immaterial. Labour today promotes hatred not only in Britain but also gives hatred solace on the world stage.
    In 1975, British journalist and writer Gerald Seymour coined the phrase, “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter,” in his novel Harry’s Game, set during the height of the British conflict with the Irish Republican Army. A generation of statesmen has seized upon the phrase to justify moral equivalence. But Corbyn goes beyond that: In the most recent scandal to surround the British Labour leader and possible future prime minister, photos emerged proving that Corbyn had laid a wreath at a monument for the terrorists who tortured and murdered much of the Israeli Olympic team at the 1972 Olympics.
    The nightmare for political aides on both sides of the Atlantic is that a photo will emerge with their boss shaking hands with a criminal or charlatan who somehow made it past the rope lines and then uses that photograph to imply legitimacy. In most cases, the resulting photo might be worth a day’s headline, but are quickly forgotten. Here, too, Corbyn is different. He associated with a Holocaust denial group — not just once, but for an entire decade. He has won praise not only from the office of Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei but also from the Ku Klux Klan.
    While the Palestinian cause and the quest for a two-state solution has attracted a broad array of activists over the years, Corbyn joined its genocidal fringe, embracing Hamas, a group which seeks not only the eradication of Israel but the murder of Jews worldwide.


    But is the problem just Corbyn? Consider this expose from The Times:

    "Twelve senior staff working for the Labour leader and the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, are members of groups containing anti-semitic and violent comments, including praise for Adolf Hitler and threats to kill Theresa May, the prime minister. The most comprehensive investigation conducted into 20 of the biggest pro-Corbyn Facebook groups — numbering 400,000 members — found routine attacks on Jewish people, including Holocaust denial."

    It’s clear that Labour has an anti-Semitism problem and, perhaps more broadly, a hostility toward the Western liberal order. But is it fair to castigate it as a hate group?
    Yes. It can be held to the same standards as previous political movements and groups which have likewise promoted intolerance and hatred. The Ku Klux Klan began as a political and religious movement in the mid-19th century and contemporary leaders like David Duke have embraced electoral politics to seek to use the levers of government for their hateful purposes. While overused as an analogy, it is true both that Nazism rose as a political party before its reality was discredited in the eyes of the civilized world and that many Germans rallied around Hitler even when they disagreed with his racial and religious theories.
    While in both Europe and the United States, far-right and white supremacist organizations often attract opprobrium, the rise of hate on the Left is as serious a phenomenon. Consider Antifa, for example, a conglomeration of self-styled ‘anti-fascist’ organizations that embraces hate speech and promotes political, racial, and religious violence. While it is true that both U.S. Republicans and Democrats can find racists and purveyors of anti-Semitism among their ranks, none define their parties as does Corbyn. Both parties have bad apples, but not spoiled barrels.
    Corbyn promotes his hatreds and obsessions without shame, and increasingly insists his inner circle does as well. More than economic philosophy, their hatred has come to define the Labour Party and, by extension, those who maintain their affiliation with it. And, unlike in the United States where two parties predominate, the Labour rank-and-file has a liberal alternative in the Liberal Democrats, a party which has tackled the scourge of anti-Semitism with more seriousness. When the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism asked British Jews, “Do you feel that any political parties are too tolerant of anti-Semitism among their MPs, members, and supporters?” 87 percent identified the Labour Party, while the Tories merited only 12 percent.
    Jeremy Corbyn is the new face of the Labour Party, but his excesses are no longer simply individual faults. Rather, he is a face of a movement which, like other hate groups before, seeks to use the trappings of the political process to advance an agenda of hate and demonization. The United Kingdom increasingly has a hate problem: Jeremy Corbyn may be its head, but the Labour Party has become its body.


    Michael Rubin (@Mrubin1971) is a contributor to the Washington Examiner's Beltway Confidential blog. He is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and a former Pentagon official.
     
    #21001
  2. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    You'd definately get the sympathy vote from all the anti-Semites after that debacle
     
    #21002
  3. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    I’ve always thought Jake Bidwell would be a good Jewish name.
     
    #21003
  4. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Forgive me WWR (Watford), but I'm going to betray my ignorance. You seem to be the furthest I can imagine from orthodox, or even religious at all, yet you seem to very much identify as Jewish. I get the heritage thing, but do you associate in any way with Israel? Apologies for what is probably a very crass question, but I just don't get this stuff.
     
    #21004
  5. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    No, not really. I’ve been a couple of times and appreciate that if the worst came to the worst they’d take me in but I’m not attached to the place even in the way most unreligious Jews are. I’d be a bit uneasy if it ceased to exist.
     
    #21005
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  6. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Wow, 'if the worst came to the worst', that's very striking.
     
    #21006

  7. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

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    It’s not all bad. From Israel I could stream every game.
     
    #21007
  8. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    And you qualify to present Newsnight. Well Done!
     
    #21008
  9. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    #21009
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
    kiwiqpr likes this.
  10. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    #21010
  11. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    May I politely refer you to post #20993?
     
    #21011
  12. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    That's a superb post and eloquently sums up my thoughts on the entire issue.
     
    #21012
  13. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    You may.....but post numbers don’t come up on my phone so it’s lost on me ;)
     
    #21013
  14. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    If you have an iPhone then just turn it on it’s side and they appear.
     
    #21014
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  15. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    20993 for you staines
     
    #21015
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  16. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    Parp, parp!

    There I go again.
     
    #21016
    kiwiqpr likes this.
  17. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    You are an absolute genius sir :)
     
    #21017
  18. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Throwaway remark by some talking head on the news this morning - usually in British politics one of the two major parties is in chaos, full of internal strife, while the other is relatively stable. Uniquely we are now in a position where both are in a headlong plummet into the abyss (my exaggeration). The party conferences could be carnage, which will at least be entertaining, to a point.
     
    #21018
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  19. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    I cannot remember a more volatile time in British politics on virtually every front. I'm conflicted on which Brexit I want. I've always liked Dominic Raab, so felt if he can make a success of Chequers, fair enough. But hearing David Davies talk on LBC this am about British industry having to comply with EU laws which it has no influence in making, and could be made deliberately prejudicial to the UK to assist EU competitors, I'm moving to a cleaner break.

    Chequers is at present looking dead in the water anyway, because the EU won't buy it and the British parliament won't pass it as law. WTO on the horizon again.
     
    #21019
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  20. awjm

    awjm Well-Known Member

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    Completely ridiculous article.

    There are issues with prejudice everywhere in society.

    Fact: racism is a bigger issue on the right.
    Fact: violent hate crime is a bigger issue on the right.
    Fact: there are greater anti-racism and pro-rights campaigns on the left.
    Fact: there are more instances of racial or homophobic slurs in the Tory party than in Labour.

    I am not a typical Labour voter. I support Green. I'm not even suggesting there aren't anti-Semitic Labour members. But it's clear that there is a political agenda to remove Jeremy Corbyn from any position of power because of his anti-establishment views. The press and the Tories will throw anything at him. Furthermore, people within Labour who do not want the left to have power in the party are also doing all they can to remove him.

    Another fact: universities have studied the balance in our media and have found that there is a clear imbalance in reporting between the parties, in favour of Tories and the right.
     
    #21020
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
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