It's not 'people' though, it's a religion. Why should Jewish people in this country have any preferential rights over a bit of land in the Middle East?
I don’t really know, if I’m honest. But, what I do suspect is that if the Jews came under Arab rule they would be subjected to the same sort of hatred and persecution as the Pallies simply because they’re Jews. The hatred between Jew and Arab dates back to 2,000 years. There is no solution.
i would imagine that the isrealis under arab rule would be in a far worse position than the other way around
Dunno, if I’m honest. The Pallies are a subset of the Arabs, aren’t they? I think they’re a pawn in a pretty vile game. Not sure what’s worse, their treatment at the hands of the Israelis (happy?) or the fact that their Arab brothers could come to their aid (like) yesterday, but choose to prolong their suffering in perpetuity for the greater bad.
The thing with the Jews is that they don’t fit into the convenient categories that we like to divide things into. They are not a race, not necessarily a religion (plenty of atheist Jews still happy to be identified as Jewish, including Karl Marx, whereas I would protest at any assumption that I was Christian. There are a fair number of anti Zionist or anti Israel Jews, still happy to be Jewish. I believe the the Labour Party has a club for this clique). Perhaps it’s more of a culture, and one with a shared ancestral memory not only of family and rituals, but of persecution. And given that history of persecution over millennia, while I don’t think many British Jews think they have any preferential rights over land in the Middle East it hardly surprising that they support the idea of having a place of safety if things turn nasty yet again. The fact is that many British Jews do feel the subject of abuse and attack to a much higher degree than in the recent past, whether or not this has anything to do with the Labour Party. In short, it is ‘people’. People with a shared heritage, not necessarily shared beliefs.
To be fair Uber, I’d feel a victim if someone invaded my territory, built illegal settlements on and claimed the land as theirs.
But did they, Stainsey? Jews & Arabs have lived in disharmony in those lands since time immemorial. Creating the state of Israel in 1948(?) was our fault, wasn’t it? Not sure what alternatives there were, but happy to be educated.
Not saying the place isn’t ****ed up, and as you rightly say it has been for many years, partly by our (British) fault in helping to create the state of Israel. My limited understanding is that during the 1967 ‘6 day war’ Israel expanded its territory to occupy the West Bank and the Golan Heights and that there are still illegal settlements being built there (in the West Bank at least). Though if course I might be wrong and it’s probably a bit more complicated than that.
The thing is, Stainsey, regardless of whether the creation of Israel in 1948 was a good thing or not, that was 70 years ago. I’ll wager that a majority (or significant minority) of Israelis were born since then, whether immigrants or subsequent generations. On that basis, it matters not a jot about the perceived legality of the state of Israel. Many are born into what already “is” and that’s all that matters. Every now and then there’s a UK news story about an illegal immigrant family that’s threatened with deportation, but the community rallies to their defence, often citing the impact on their children, born into this country and not knowing any other culture, state or citizenship. That’s much of Israel now. It’s origins are becoming irrelevant, an argument for yesteryear.
You’re missing my point Uber.....I was referring to the fact that even to this day, illegal settlements are being built on land that doesn’t actually belong to Israel......and that if it was my land I’d class my self as a victim of a more powerful aggressor. The history of Israel doesn’t come in to the fact that it’s morally wrong.
**** this, I tried to move things on to Corbyn's success in reshaping Labour's domestic policy and all you want to talk about is ****ing anti-Semitism.
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Saw this advertised on the BBC - airs at 9pm on Tuesday..... BBC Two - We Are British Jews, Series 1, Episode 1 In a two-part series, eight British Jews with a broad range of opinions, beliefs and practices, go on a journey to explore what it means to be Jewish in Britain today and examine some of the most pressing questions and challenges facing the Jewish community at home and in Israel. In the first episode, the group meet in Manchester, home to the UK's largest Jewish community outside of London. After getting to know each other, and discovering their differences, they explore what antisemitism looks and feels like in modern Britain and reflect on how perceptions of Israel affect them here at home. They meet the owner of a local restaurant which has been attacked a number of times in recent years and talk to a Labour MP who has been the focus of abuse online. The group go on to meet with Jewish students, where they hear how they have needed security when they have held Israel events on campus. The group then travel to Israel, the country many of the group call their homeland. Starting their journey on a Kibbutz, a communal farm, they get some stark reminders of the realities of life in the Jewish State and meet a young American woman who has volunteered to serve in the Israeli Defense Forces. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bjj1h4
The problem I have with a show like that is that they’ll all be the sort of ****s who give Jews a bad name. Why wasn’t I asked? I could have taken them to West Brom.
