I know. I'm also sure that other disasters also had a bearing on standing and stadium design in general as well.
I wasn't being sarcastic. Thanks for the heads up on my writing style though. That was sarcasm that time.
You're confusing me now. If the comment I picked up on wasn't sarcasm then how do you explain saying Hillsborough both was and wasn't on the minds of those pushing for all seater?
I don't think I said it wasnt on their minds. Just the exact opposite. If it came across that way then it was a blooper!
Watered down version of what though ? I stood on the old terraces as I believe you did, and those old grounds were dangerous. Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen. Yes they were fun too and I used to enjoy the lawlessness of the old terraces, but times have changed and nobody wants to return to the bad old days. I think safe standing would help to bring back a lot of the old atmosphere that was lost when we went all seater, without putting fans in unnecessary danger.
No real problem with it coming back as the risk assessments would need to be absolutely water tight before they agreed to it and it appears to be what many people want. Personally it's not for me as I'd much rather sit these days.
It was the lawlessness that brought the atmosphere though. Games are all ticket these days, so just sell the safe amount of tickets for the standing section.
As I understand it each club will decide - if the authorities give the go ahead - whether to put in safe standing and how much of it. I don't think there needs to be an all or nothing agreement by all clubs. It's a very emotive one for us and while there are Hillsborough survivors in favour of safe standing, I can't see the club agreeing to it.
To a degree yes. But it also went alongside a lot of unsavoury behaviour. Hooliganism, Racism, Homophobia, Misogyny. Fans fighting each other on the terraces etc. I remember blokes just pissing on each others legs because it was too packed to get out and use the toilet. Also the lock in at away days and just a general feeling of siege mentality. The Police treated us like ****, and most fans responded in kind. It was a tribal us again them mentality. Your firm was your family and everybody else was the enemy. I saw some horrible stuff back in those days. People getting glassed in pubs, 10 guys jumping one bloke and kicking the absolute **** out of him. One incident I will never forget is the sound of a bloke's teeth getting smashed into a kerb and people stamping on his head and he lay there with blood gushing out of his mouth. Nobody wants to see that **** again. It nearly killed football in the UK. But I do admit that with it came a thrill and anybody who stood on the old terraces will know that. But I don't think we need the violence and lawlessness to create a decent atmosphere in grounds. It just needs the like minded fans to be afforded a space together away from the tourists, corporates and those who want to sit and enjoy the game without the raucousness, where they can stand, sing, shout and jump around
It's not surprising that Hillsborough survivors are going to have understandable issues with it. The removal of those cage-like fences makes any repeat extremely unlikely though, in my opinion. If there was a similar situation with too many fans in the ground, then people would just go onto the pitch. There are still overcrowding and crushing problems though, potentially. It's still very raw for many people.
