Off Topic The Politics Thread

[DT’s Socks]

You just seem to pop up and bash England. We all know you live in France fella but if life is so good why keep returning and bashing the UK? The trains in the UK are mostly crap but there are many things in the UK that are fab. Move on odd one.

Sorry but my posts are made to reflect or echo back the right you seem to have to publish a load of tosh you cherry pick from the pool of fake news.

I am a pro EU supporter that’s all

There are things in the U.K. that are fab
I especially like the strawberry ice middle after knocking back the choc coating sprinkled with multi coloured hundreds and thousands . I can give or take the vanilla coating as it’s either here or there

The ingredients I believe are from the EU and the company is French

One example if you drill down into U.K. v EU food industries

Again my comments on here are NOT to wind people up they are to redress the balance of the mess we are in

Yes I live in France because in a nutshell
City folk purchased all the farms from my birthplace as holiday retreats. I could no longer afford to return to my roots in farming in the area of my birth. My family still hold what is left of the farm in the form of farm maintenance companies ... They are dreaded the exit from Europe as they do not believe the U.K. will support them the same as the EU has.

You need to do a lot more research or witness the true depth of impact of Brexit

These seems no substance for a solution from Brexiteers other than standing with your chests out and shouting We British we are the best etc and the Europeans are corrupt mafia types . To add to that half the people of the U.K. were against leaving the EU

If that’s a promising future for my country then sorry but I want what is best for my country and it’s peoples

I voted stay in how the EU is run is another matter and can and will be changed from within ... expect the result went against us as the protest vote was under estimated ... therefore the U.K. wasn’t happy in the first place and imo culturally and in true Anglo Saxon fashion blamed some one else

We sold everything over 40 years but that’s not our fault

Come on Ellers I have re read the thread while I was away and there is a trend of posting daily crap all with a blame culture attached to it all anti EU

The U.K. is in crisis today in the now

It was predicted by many on here

 

[DT’s Socks]

Once and for all so posters can see where I am coming from and not to put it into peoples faces ... this is my England and it’s run by the EU

So here is where I live in the Languedoc
My Hamlet of which I owe the majority of it
£55,000 the vineyards are not mine by the way

It was purchased to give my sons a home they can afford for their families after them
I cannot do that in England which breaks my heart at times this is the next best thing

 

[kiwiqpr]

How many more what, may I ask?

How many more
British citizens are willing to kill little kids in terrorist attacks
Foreign born citizens were allowed into the UK who wish to kill little kids in terrorist attacks
How

 

[Staines R's]

Is the heat causing a crisis in the nhs
The cold seems to every year
Would mild weather cause a crisis

From a frontline perspective.......the heat is certainly having an effect on the older generation.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I hope Corbyn gets the long term respect i believe he deserves ... well for a politician.
I hold stark views on how Israel conducts itself in the world. I worked for many years for Teva Pharmaceuticals in R&D on reflection I actually felt ashamed of who i was then. I actually have recently cashed in my final salary pension to break all ties with the industry i knew and Israel.

As we get older i believe we should all set our records straight if we can

I am no longer to accept our use of the word terrorist. I honestly believe that is the real project fear we all seem to bow to.

As for May/Corbyn etc seriously i believe anyone British should feel massively embarrassed with all politicians. I am no news junkie but while i have been away I have caught up via Sky News and each time it gets me more annoyed until that it i realised that was the idea.

The problem is that Corbyn and his cohorts don't distinguish between Jewish people in this country, and Israel's right wing government. Many Jews speaking out against Netanyahu.

It doesn't really matter whether the word "terrorist" or the phrase "someone who uses unlawful violence and intimidation including murder, especially against civilian men, women and children, in the pursuit of political aims." is used. The result is the same.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

After Brexit the UK will not be able to enjoy desserts like Black Forest gateau.
This is because they will not be able to import ingredients from the Black Forest.
Take a last look, UK.

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This must be the cake that Brussels says we can have but not eat.

And those must be the cherries that the UK isn't allowed to pick

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

This must be the cake that Brussels says we can have but not eat.

And those must be the cherries that the UK isn't allowed to pick

We won’t have any cherry pickers anyway.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

We won’t have any cherry pickers anyway.

That's because the EU won't allow them to pick cherries on our behalf. On the other hand, EU strawberry pickers will probably get seasonal work visas once a deal on Brexit has shaken down

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

That's because the EU won't allow them to pick cherries on our behalf. On the other hand, EU strawberry pickers will probably get seasonal work visas once a deal on Brexit has shaken down

There is surely a plethora of Brits looking for hard manual labour at minimum wage. What with our high unemployment it’s no wonder there’s so much random ill sentiment towards migrants.

 

[Staines R's]

There is surely a plethora of Brits looking for hard manual labour at minimum wage. What with our high unemployment it’s no wonder there’s so much random ill sentiment towards migrants.

So might that not lead to said scumbag companies, willing to exploit the poor and needy to start offering a decent and fair wage to get the hard manual labour done ?
And quite honestly if they didn’t and went under because of it......I personally wouldn’t shed many tears.

 

[Deleted.......]

Just switched on Sky News to have a look

Well I understand now what the fuss is about

Is this Project Fear?

Smells like a powerful media campaign to me. The polls look overwhelming but the question is: Is this all theatre?

I would think a No Deal has to be avoided at all costs. The pressure is ramping up

I only know that I have submitted record charges to my accounts as companies have all prepared to leave the U.K. I can only state the facts I know and the company I work for has the design/marketing monopoly in the financial sector not only in the U.K. but worldwide.

Business is running this project fear imo

It’s public now about House of Fraser ... there are more to come much more

I think you're bang on about it now being theatre. It's deplorable.

 

[sb_73]

That's because the EU won't allow them to pick cherries on our behalf. On the other hand, EU strawberry pickers will probably get seasonal work visas once a deal on Brexit has shaken down

I seem to remember that you had no or minimal objection to the Common Market Goldie, am I right?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I seem to remember that you had no or minimal objection to the Common Market Goldie, am I right?

I voted for the Common Market, Stan, as it was constituted then.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

So might that not lead to said scumbag companies, willing to exploit the poor and needy to start offering a decent and fair wage to get the hard manual labour done ?
And quite honestly if they didn’t and went under because of it......I personally wouldn’t shed many tears.

The over 25 minimum wage is a shade under £8 now I believe and about 50p less for those younger and then I think it’s stepped down again for teens. If you upped that by, say, 10% I don’t think you attract many Brits. That’s assuming minimum wage is the wage paid for these jobs.

Most of the farms are in relatively remote areas and mostly in the South so you’re relying on workers being mobile enough to get there in regions which probably have lower than average unemployment. I’ve worked in the fruit industry and seen what the guys in the fields and factories do. It’s a slog and it’s bloody dull and you’ve got to be fit for a lot of it. Good luck finding Brits who can be sufficiently productive, aren’t doing something easier/better already and can get there in the first place.

Even the big fruit suppliers aren’t making mega bucks as they’re being shat on by supermarkets, were losing money throughout the import season when I was there which I doubt has changed with the £’s fortunes and so rely on the domestic season to survive. Unless you get a complete shift in mentality of what people are willing to pay for decent produce and supermarkets give suppliers a fair deal, I don’t see how you change that.

 

[sb_73]

I voted for the Common Market, Stan, as it was constituted then.

You can have that back, and respect the referendum, and generate a proper majority position if just 10% of leave voters accept it and remain voters also accept that we are leaving the EU.

Simply join the European Free Trade Area, stay in the single market but no involvement with things like the agricultural or fisheries policies, the social and economic programmes, ever closer union, € etc. Some free movement of people but as you note we need that to get our strawberries picked, and we can use the rules that for some reason we have ignored to date to control it. As we are a more important economic player than Norway I’m sure we could negotiate a better deal than them.

Of course it’s not want those who desire the EU to crash and burn while we stand as the tallest surviving but crippled dwarf want, but is does have the advantage of probably being tolerable, even if not the dream outcome, to a sizeable majority of the country. Sorts out Irish border, keeps the Scots quiet, deals with economic uncertainty. Most importantly puts a lid on all but the most extreme elements on either side of the argument, those who claim to put their principles above other people’s well-being and wishes, which are fast turning public discourse in this country into an open sewer of ignorance and bile. Which will go on for generations unless we do something about it.

I fear however that there is no appetite for compromise to get something that a real majority of the country can live with, people would rather stick to their guns and see the country permanently divided and toxic.

 

[Staines R's]

The over 25 minimum wage is a shade under £8 now I believe and about 50p less for those younger and then I think it’s stepped down again for teens. If you upped that by, say, 10% I don’t think you attract many Brits. That’s assuming minimum wage is the wage paid for these jobs.

Most of the farms are in relatively remote areas and mostly in the South so you’re relying on workers being mobile enough to get there in regions which probably have lower than average unemployment. I’ve worked in the fruit industry and seen what the guys in the fields and factories do. It’s a slog and it’s bloody dull and you’ve got to be fit for a lot of it. Good luck finding Brits who can be sufficiently productive, aren’t doing something easier/better already and can get there in the first place.

Even the big fruit suppliers aren’t making mega bucks as they’re being shat on by supermarkets, were losing money throughout the import season when I was there which I doubt has changed with the £’s fortunes and so rely on the domestic season to survive. Unless you get a complete shift in mentality of what people are willing to pay for decent produce and supermarkets give suppliers a fair deal, I don’t see how you change that.

Fair points..........but still the exploitation of cheap labour doesn’t sit right with me.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

You can have that back, and respect the referendum, and generate a proper majority position if just 10% of leave voters accept it and remain voters also accept that we are leaving the EU.

Simply join the European Free Trade Association, stay in the single market but no involvement with things like the agricultural or fisheries policies, the social and economic programmes, ever closer union, € etc. Some free movement of people but as you note we need that to get our strawberries picked, and we can use the rules that for some reason we have ignored to date to control it. As we are a more important economic player than Norway I’m sure we could negotiate a better deal than them.

Of course it’s not want those who desire the EU to crash and burn while we stand as the tallest surviving but crippled dwarf want, but is does have the advantage of probably being tolerable, even if not the dream outcome, to a sizeable majority of the country. Sorts out Irish border, keeps the Scots quiet, deals with economic uncertainty. Most importantly puts a lid on all but the most extreme elements on either side of the argument, those who claim to put their principles above other people’s well-being and wishes, which are fast turning public discourse in this country into an open sewer of ignorance and bile. Which will go on for generations unless we do something about it.

I fear however that there is no appetite for compromise to get something that a real majority of the country can live with, people would rather stick to their guns and see the country permanently divided and toxic.

The problem with this proposal is that:

1. We leave the club but are still bound by its rules - but now have no influence over those that are made. If rules are brought in that prejudice the City of London as compared to Paris and Frankfurt, we're bound into them.

2. There are restrictions on trade outside the EU which defeats one of the main benefits of Brexit, particularly as increasingly more of our trade is outside the EU.

3. No control over immigration as you say. The UK government should know who comes in, for how long and how many.

4. We'll still be governed by the ECJ.

I'm after a deal rather than no-deal but this doesn't cut it for me. We go for WTO imo, and if the EU stop being a brick wall and start to compromise, then perhaps sensible arrangements will be arrived at.

 

[sb_73]

The problem with this proposal is that:

1. We leave the club but are still bound by its rules - but now have no influence over those that are made. If rules are brought in that prejudice the City of London as compared to Paris and Frankfurt, we're bound into them.

2. There are restrictions on trade outside the EU which defeats one of the main benefits of Brexit, particularly as increasingly more of our trade is outside the EU.

3. No control over immigration as you say. The UK government should know who comes in, for how long and how many.

4. We'll still be governed by the ECJ.

I'm after a deal rather than no-deal but this doesn't cut it for me. We go for WTO imo, and if the EU stop being a brick wall and start to compromise, then perhaps sensible arrangements will be arrived at.

It’s not a perfect compromise, but no compromise ever is. It’s relatively quick, easy and could be acceptable to a decent majority. Are you prepared to move at all in order to allay the fears and concerns of the 48%?

Let’s be clear about the trade deals. We already trade with all of the countries we want to have deals with, so treaties would be % changes, not new huge markets (just like our trade with the EU won’t stop). Some, like USA, China and India explicitly want to export more to us and in terms of goods and food, which, though they might be cheaper, this would require us lowering our existing standards and regulations. We want deals to sell services to them, because that is the majority of our economy. If successful this will not directly benefit those leave heartlands voters, unless more tax is collected and it’s put into welfare programmes. I presume recognition of this % game this is why Rees Mogg says it will take 50 years to get a net economic positive result.

I read the other day that under existing arrangements it takes 2 minutes for a truck to clear customs at Dover. It is very conservatively estimated that WTO rules would double this, to 4 minutes. This results in a pretty instant 17 mile lorry park on the M20, which is not only inconvenient and irritating for all those involved but a big dent in productivity for the companies trying to move stuff around. The answer is to employ more customs officers and build the infrastructure to give them somewhere to work. This costs public money, taxpayers money, or increased public borrowing. We will also have to create brand new medicines, air travel, food standards etc regulatory and inspection institutions, none of which add to the nations wealth. We already know that the ‘Brexit dividend’ will be eaten up paying for the things like farm subsidies that currently come from the EU budget. I am really struggling to see how any of this makes us better off.

 

[Deleted.......]

Surely what we have put on the table is a proposal for how we leave. Nothing is set in stone forever so can be changed at any time and help us to move further to full independence in a less chaotic and uncertain way. I don't see the problem with it.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Surely what we have put on the table is a proposal for how we leave. Nothing is set in stone forever so can be changed at any time and help us to move further to full independence in a less chaotic and uncertain way. I don't see the problem with it.

Yes, this is the view of people like Michael Gove and Liam Fox. It's a fair view so long as the EU don't try to force more material compromises - which they will!