Keegan called scrapping the reserves his biggest mistake, but that was at a time where we had players who potentially had a chance of making it. We seem completely incapable of producing a decent player, and if we're looking at pinching pennies, perhaps this should be an area that is looked at. There are 2 options if we went down this route, either any prospects signed would be farmed out for income, as per Chelsea, or we would then get a local feeder club from the lower leagues (e.g Sunderland ) to hone the players. Obviously, we have to sign prospects first before we do anything with them... But I think the current transfer approach just emphasises the futility of having an U21 squad. What's your thoughts?
Agree. Its when things are done half arsed that they become a problem. Either we fund the academy and scouting network properly or do away with it completely and accept that we will never produce our own players. I have the exact same opinion regarding public services. Either fund them properly or do away with them. You either accept people are going to get sick and die, crime is going to increase, buildings are going to burn etc etc or you fund it properly.
It shouldnt be difficult to get to the Academy to fund itself but it needs a proper focus on running it as both a source of funds and players. I would actually split it out as a seperate business line with its own Director. NUFC gets first option on players but Academy Director decides when players are loaned out or sold. PL managers now have a short term approach to football that does not fit with the role of an academy.
I did say good. You could have said Taylor Shola Ramage if you want average. Dummett is OK. Good is pushing it.
Even if they were average PL players now it would be worth keeping it going. Only need two of those every so often and you probably make a profit out of it.
Dummett is probably worth 5m. Before him and the 3 I mentioned you're going as far back as Lee Clark for someone we've produced. Even the scruffs up the road who Frodo supports produce players
What about Fraser Forster, Shane Ferguson, Tim Krul, Aaron Hughes, Andy Carroll. Of the current crop Freddy Woodman must surely be one for the future or at least worth some money. Is the fact that we are not producing enough players a reason to scrap the Academy? Shouldn't or should we be looking at what are doing wrong and how we can improve it?
I'll give you Carroll. You're scraping the barrel with the rest. If we were a proper club I'd be looking to improve it. But we're ran like Pennystretcher.
Bit harsh - Forster transferred from Celtic to Southampton for 10million in 2014 and has played 106 PL games for them. - Krul - was our no 1 goalkeeper until a season ravaged by injury in 2015 - Aaron Hughes - PL regular from 1999 to 2014 My point with the these players is that they were worth the effort. Either us, or another PL club, got plenty of games out of them.
I believe we should be investing money into the academies to generate players in the future based purely on the fact that the transfer fees for players is going so high we wont be able to afford players. Our scouting network and youth setup should be worked on now and we should be prepared to wait a couple of years for the fruits to come through. I honestly believe that in 5 years time we will not be a premiership team. There is now just TOO much money involved. We as a club have not evolved (positively) over the last 10 years. Whereas transfer fees have multiplied by 10 fold. On talksport today they where saying Harry Maguire is worth 65 million.........Fat Sam even said that the £50m for Richarlison is worth it because your buying potential. ITS MADNESS!
I think we have produced a few of late good enough. The issue seems to be providing opportunities. Perhaps when Rafa leaves a younger manager should be sought with a more Pochettino approach to young players. We lost Lewis Gibson because we are still seen as a club who doesn’t promote youth. Yet look at Dummett. Much maligned and still not rated by many, I think he does a pretty solid job for us.
Our academy is a bloody joke these days, there doesn't seem to be any concern about quality, it's all just about filling quotas and getting any old dross in. If a kid doesn't make it with us, we'd realistically expect them to have a decent 3rd or 4th tier career.... ....but no, this year the kids we have released have ended up at Morpeth Town, Washington, Blyth Spartans, Newcastle Benfield, Spennymoor, Heaton Stannington...blah blah. Is it even worth having a youth system if it's just a feeder for 7th and 8th tier part-time clubs?!
Just on the Dummett line... did he spend a lot of time in out academy... or was he in fact loaned out frequently and developed elsewhere..?
In our youth system since he was 9, so yeah an academy product: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dummett Loaned to Gateshead in 11-12, then St Mirren in 12-13, established himself as a 1st team in 13-14. I think the goal in his first few games against Liverpool was key and really got him noticed, or else he could've faded out the picture.
Got someone at the under -19 Euro's at the moment. It doesn't take many to come through to pay for itself. "Fraser Forster, Shane Ferguson, Tim Krul, Aaron Hughes, Andy Carroll" plus Dummet probably equates to £50 - £75 million in fees at current levels
The list of players mooted above hardly fills one full of confidence. But this purely down to the Academy not being of sufficient interest to attract the talent. And it was ever thus. We had the Charlton brothers who looked that the Newcastle academy, or whatever it was in the days of jumpers for goalposts, and their parents said that (a) Bobby should get a proper qualification (he become an electrician) and (b) look elsewhere. So Bobby went to Manchester United and Jackie went to Leeds some time later. Both could, and should, have been attracted to Newcastle. Sir Bobby had one look at the set-up and went elsewhere. Alan Shearer went for a trial and the useless ****wits put him in goal, decided he was **** and then he ended up at Southampton and said "Hello" on his debut by banging in three against Arsenal. Clearly, the issue is that not who has come through the Academy but why it's not pulling in better players. I suggest keeping the thing but make it worthwhile.
If we're going that far back then Beardsley, Waddle and Gascoigne did pretty well out of it. And many others also I'm sure. It's just not up to the best standards right now and worse is that the club's owner doesn't seem to want to change things. It's certainly not a reason to shut it down - that would be ridiculous - but it needs an overhaul by someone competent (Rafa for example).
We will invest in it once we know who our manager is going to be for the next 5 years. It has to be moulded in manner which they want. Hopefully Rafa will check under the settee and find his pen.
