Off Topic The Politics Thread

[TheBigDipper]

If it wasn't so tragic it would be funny. The more likely it looks that the Unicorn will not be delivered to every Unicorn voters specific personal satisfaction (they knew what colour Unicorn they wanted when they placed their request, even though the form didn't ask them to say) the more we're reverting to the pre-Unicorn-vote level of argument. The really worrying thing is that they'll settle for a "jump off the cliff" Unicorn, somewhat like a baby having a temper tantrum ("I want a Unicorrrrrnnnn!!!") rather than agree that it was impossible to give everyone their personalised Unicorn that exactly matched their needs. - in part because no-one asked the right question of them.

When did jumping off a cliff become a rational response to anything?

This mess was always about the Conservatives trying to patch up their internal differences so they could stay in power - although if all they want to do is damage the country with their policies, what are they in power for? The "whataboutery" argument that Labour or the Lib Dems would be worse is not an excuse for continuing with these people.

We all deserve better.

 

[ELLERS]

Blimey, what orders do they make us do? I had mushy peas with my fish and chips last night. Am I in trouble now or will the chip shop be?

It depends, was the fish caught in the right place and shipped from some EU country? Were the peas green enough? Don't get me started on the potato's! Were they deemed to be the right size,shape and colour?
As for the chip shop, I hope they have abided by every EU law for business? Likely you never had cheese with the meal as that now comes under so many new EU regulations.
I'm surprised you also described the peas as mushy? However like other things i am sure that name will needed to be changed.
Bon appetit!

 

[bobmid]

It depends, was the fish caught in the right place and shipped from some EU country? Were the peas green enough? Don't get me started on the potato's! Were they deemed to be the right size,shape and colour?
As for the chip shop, I hope they have abided by every EU law for business? Likely you never had cheese with the meal as that now comes under so many new EU regulations.
I'm surprised you also described the peas as mushy? However like other things i am sure that name will needed to be changed.
Bon appetit!

It's fish and chips and mushy peas. I really couldn't care less where it's caught or shipped from! Had cheese the night before with crackers as a dessert. Really enjoyed it. Didn't come with any regulations. Should I complain?

 

[West London Willy]

No deal was the default position for leaving the EU. If we can get a deal (withdrawal and trade) with Brussels, so much the better for everyone. The UK can't do it on it's own, going forward. I doubt it will happen, because the Chequers deal is weak and the EU will try to weaken is substantially further

WTO most likely in my view, unless there's a big change of heart from across the Channel

'No Deal' may have been YOUR default position, but you can't imply that from the question asked, nor can it be inferred across the Leave vote.

 

[ELLERS]

It's fish and chips and mushy peas. I really couldn't care less where it's caught or shipped from! Had cheese the night before with crackers as a dessert. Really enjoyed it. Didn't come with any regulations. Should I complain?

No, you shouldn't.
I was thinking more about the fisherman, the farmers, the business regulations for the shop.

 

[ELLERS]

I listened to some German bloke on the news last night who basically said they would accept May's new deal....the interviewer said was that because it makes it easy for Germany to sell cars to the UK and get a good deal on services.

 

[West London Willy]

It's OK, mate. He's just switched targets from me to you. Some people just can't operate without trying to have a go at someone.

I feel your pain.

 

[West London Willy]

Our government are currently tories, yes you are correct, But if we remain in Europe our government no matter who, Labour Conservative,Lib Dem WILL have to take orders from Europe and the corrupt EU.
I am British first, European second and I refuse to be ruled by an unelected bunch of Eurocrats from a corrupt organisation who have no right to tell me I cannot eat a bent banana,or I can’t have mushy peas with my fish and chips because they have green food colouring in them.
And more than that I REFUSE to have some asshole in an office in Brussels telling me I must live in a country that can not control its own borders and must allow whoever they say to come and live in my country and turn it into a third world ****hole just to suit their snowflake agenda.

You do know that all that crap about bananas etc. was a bullshit story made up by the Daily Mail, don't you? You've been utterly fooled by the right wing media into believing their lies over verifiable truth. Same with borders. We never joined Shengen, so we were, and are, able to refuse entry to ANYONE. Our border controls are to blame, they are unfit for purpose. That's our fault, not the EU.

Please - if you are for leaving, that's fine. But have proper reasons for doing so.

 

[ELLERS]

It's OK, mate. He's just switched targets from me to you. Some people just can't operate without trying to have a go at someone.

I feel your pain.

What a stupid reply willy. I don't target anyone. In fact if you read one of my posts to Stoller I said how he had some decent posts last week and I have also liked some. Unlike you, with your boring rhetoric he actually posts some interesting points whereas you're just zzzzzzzzz.

 

[West London Willy]

What a stupid reply willy. I don't target anyone. In fact if you read one of my posts to Stoller I said how he had some decent posts last week and I have also liked some. Unlike you, with your boring rhetoric he actually posts some interesting points whereas you're just zzzzzzzzz.

I like to think of my post as a diversionary tactic, giving Stroller some respite. I knew you wouldn't be able to resist aiming at me in a pointless and insulting response - it's what you do.

Hope you enjoy a breather, Strolls.

 

[colognehornet]

Worth getting back to the human side of all this. A 'no deal' scenario, or hard Brexit, means that there is, initially, nothing left. It means that those UK. nationals living in the EU. who have lived there for quite some time may be able to take the nationality of the country they are living in, or may have 'acquired citizens rights', but others will have nothing at all - will have a status no different to if they came from Timbuktou. Even those who have been away for a longer time, may have problems with getting pensions paid out in their adopted countries. I will have some of my pension from the UK. some from the Netherlands, and some from Germany - and it's all bloody complicated. British people living in other countries are no less 'British' than those at home and are influenced by everything which Britain does - but are, apparently, denied a vote on things like this which concern them deeply. A really hard Brexit (ie. with nothing at all) could lead to thousands of British returning to the UK. most of them disgruntled and pissed off, many of them would have problems reintegrating and making a living, but they would all regain their voting rights overnight - does anyone want that ?

 

[ELLERS]

Worth getting back to the human side of all this. A 'no deal' scenario, or hard Brexit, means that there is, initially, nothing left. It means that those UK. nationals living in the EU. who have lived there for quite some time may be able to take the nationality of the country they are living in, or may have 'acquired citizens rights', but others will have nothing at all - will have a status no different to if they came from Timbuktou. Even those who have been away for a longer time, may have problems with getting pensions paid out in their adopted countries. I will have some of my pension from the UK. some from the Netherlands, and some from Germany - and it's all bloody complicated. British people living in other countries are no less 'British' than those at home and are influenced by everything which Britain does - but are, apparently, denied a vote on things like this which concern them deeply. A really hard Brexit (ie. with nothing at all) could lead to thousands of British returning to the UK. most of them disgruntled and pissed off, many of them would have problems reintegrating and making a living, but they would all regain their voting rights overnight - does anyone want that ?

So just because you make your life in the EU you believe that people who live and work here don't get a say on how they want to live or vote? You and others chose to live abroad and should not dictate to us living in the UK.
I have spoken to many ex-pats about Brexit and all they are worried about is themselves. I find it rather selfish TBH.
I am sure that the EU being so interested in its citizens (I believe that is one of their priorities) will look after it's people and not just worry about big business?

 

[TheBigDipper]

Jo Swinson, the Lib Dem MP was paired with Brandon Lewis, the Conservative MP on Tuesday night - the night of Mrs Mays big votes. Despite them agreeing that Lewis wouldn't vote one way because Swinson would vote the other way, he went ahead and voted. They're saying he didn't know and it was the Whips fault. Why didn't they stop him entering the lobby then?

An example of how desperate the Conservatives have become to cling onto power and win their votes or a genuine mistake? You tell me.

 

[West London Willy]

Worth getting back to the human side of all this. A 'no deal' scenario, or hard Brexit, means that there is, initially, nothing left. It means that those UK. nationals living in the EU. who have lived there for quite some time may be able to take the nationality of the country they are living in, or may have 'acquired citizens rights', but others will have nothing at all - will have a status no different to if they came from Timbuktou. Even those who have been away for a longer time, may have problems with getting pensions paid out in their adopted countries. I will have some of my pension from the UK. some from the Netherlands, and some from Germany - and it's all bloody complicated. British people living in other countries are no less 'British' than those at home and are influenced by everything which Britain does - but are, apparently, denied a vote on things like this which concern them deeply. A really hard Brexit (ie. with nothing at all) could lead to thousands of British returning to the UK. most of them disgruntled and pissed off, many of them would have problems reintegrating and making a living, but they would all regain their voting rights overnight - does anyone want that ?

Where you live shouldn't - and doesn't - dictate who you are. You don't stop being British because you live overseas. And anyone that says differently is basically pointing down this road:

1. You live abroad so you can't have a say
2. You came from abroad, so you can't have a say
3. ...
4. ...
5. ...
6. You're not me, so you can't have a say

 

[ELLERS]

Jo Swinson, the Lib Dem MP was paired with Brandon Lewis, the Conservative MP on Tuesday night - the night of Mrs Mays big votes. Despite them agreeing that Lewis wouldn't vote one way because Swinson would vote the other way, he went ahead and voted. They're saying he didn't know and it was the Whips fault. Why didn't they stop him entering the lobby then?

An example of how desperate the Conservatives have become to cling onto power and win their votes or a genuine mistake? You tell me.

Desperate and wrong from TM. Even when she apologised yesterday at PMQ's, It stunk of desperation.

 

[ELLERS]

Well done Margaret Hodge! I don't always agree with her but this time she did good. We all know that Corbyn is anti-semitic. Time and time again he is being pulled up on it. Yesterday some resigned because of his stance. The bloke will never be PM.

 

[TheBigDipper]

So just because you make your life in the EU you believe that people who live and work here don't get a say on how they want to live or vote? You and others chose to live abroad and should not dictate to us living in the UK.
I have spoken to many ex-pats about Brexit and all they are worried about is themselves. I find it rather selfish TBH.
I am sure that the EU being so interested in its citizens (I believe that is one of their priorities) will look after it's people and not just worry about big business?

Kiwi, don't you live in New Zealand? Are you living abroad and dictating to those of us in the UK?

 

[sb_73]

Worth getting back to the human side of all this. A 'no deal' scenario, or hard Brexit, means that there is, initially, nothing left. It means that those UK. nationals living in the EU. who have lived there for quite some time may be able to take the nationality of the country they are living in, or may have 'acquired citizens rights', but others will have nothing at all - will have a status no different to if they came from Timbuktou. Even those who have been away for a longer time, may have problems with getting pensions paid out in their adopted countries. I will have some of my pension from the UK. some from the Netherlands, and some from Germany - and it's all bloody complicated. British people living in other countries are no less 'British' than those at home and are influenced by everything which Britain does - but are, apparently, denied a vote on things like this which concern them deeply. A really hard Brexit (ie. with nothing at all) could lead to thousands of British returning to the UK. most of them disgruntled and pissed off, many of them would have problems reintegrating and making a living, but they would all regain their voting rights overnight - does anyone want that ?

I think that the ‘exit’ agreement is 80% in place - what we owe agreed, mutual citizens rights for those people already living outside their EU country of birth agreed, the only outstanding bit is the Irish border. This is what the EU has been focussed on to date, and whatever is agreed about customs unions etc in the future, this will be honoured, unless the UK wants to make itself a pariah state. All of the mess here is about the nature of the relationship with the EU post Exit. It’s a two stage process.

 

[sb_73]

Jo Swinson, the Lib Dem MP was paired with Brandon Lewis, the Conservative MP on Tuesday night - the night of Mrs Mays big votes. Despite them agreeing that Lewis wouldn't vote one way because Swinson would vote the other way, he went ahead and voted. They're saying he didn't know and it was the Whips fault. Why didn't they stop him entering the lobby then?

An example of how desperate the Conservatives have become to cling onto power and win their votes or a genuine mistake? You tell me.

So it turns out they won because of this tawdry bit of cheating, the Lib Dem central office ****ing up and telling Farron and Cable they should honour existing commitments because the votes weren’t going to be close, and 4 Labour MPs voting against their party.

May will find it even harder to scrape together a majority when Ian Paisley Jr (DUP) is suspended from the commons for failing to disclose £50k worth of holidays he and his family have had courtesy of the Sri Lankan government.

Elsewhere in philosophy news we finally have a winner in the great Durkheim v Weber debate. Weber reckoned that societies started getting richer because of the Protestant work ethic. Dürkheim believed that the less religious belief there was, the more likely a society would be more prosperous. After lots of research a couple of universities have concluded that Durkheim was right. The more secular your society the more likely you are to be better off, the more highly individual rights and the rule of law is respected and the more individuals can play a fuller role in society.

Not a great surprise to me, though it’s a shame I spent so much time struggling with Weber at Uni.

 

[Stroller]

I think that the ‘exit’ agreement is 80% in place - what we owe agreed, mutual citizens rights for those people already living outside their EU country of birth agreed, the only outstanding bit is the Irish border. This is what the EU has been focussed on to date, and whatever is agreed about customs unions etc in the future, this will be honoured, unless the UK wants to make itself a pariah state. All of the mess here is about the nature of the relationship with the EU post Exit. It’s a two stage process.

Do you think that we will renege on the £40bn in the event of a no-deal?