Off Topic UK / EU Future

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I was reading a couple of articles today that didn't start from the same point, but did finish up there. The point was that the numbers in the Commons make an agreement almost impossible unless you can get a cross party group of MPs together sidelining both the leadership of the Labour Party and the Rees-Mogg group. Government briefings to opposition MPs were carried out last week, suggesting that the numbers have been added up. These articles were written before the PM said that her proposals were the only ones that can work. Possibly the most significant point from the PMs piece is that unless she gets backing there could be no Brexit at all.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Possibly the most significant point from the PMs piece is that unless she gets backing there could be no Brexit at all.
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How does that work? If she does not get backing then 29th March 2019 still arrives - and we have left without any deal. Isn't that the default position.
 
It now transpires that the whole Brexit team were undermined by a few influential remain ministers and some civil servants to come up with a meek plan that nobody likes. Brexiteers, remainers the EU, all have problems with this lousy plan, it will be dead by the middle of the week.
 
superhorns said:
It now transpires that the whole Brexit team were undermined by a few influential remain ministers and some civil servants to come up with a meek plan that nobody likes. Brexiteers, remainers the EU, all have problems with this lousy plan, it will be dead by the middle of the week.
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May's career is in the hands of Boris Johnson, David Davis and Steve Baker if they stand up in parliament next week and fully explain the stitch up.
 
superhorns said:
May's career is in the hands of Boris Johnson, David Davis and Steve Baker if they stand up in parliament next week and fully explain the stitch up.
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Do you think they have anything to say that is new to others or will be influential. They are bremoaners - not getting the brexit they wanted. TM's form of brexit is about the nearest the Tory party will get to one that could get through Parliament. Boris and JRM may not like it but they are a minority wing and have been defeated. Nobody would replace TM with one of them. If they did you would be looking at a Labour government within months - and that would lead to a softer brexit still. The bremoaners know that so will not push things to a vote.
 
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Leo said:
Do you think they have anything to say that is new to others or will be influential. They are bremoaners - not getting the brexit they wanted. TM's form of brexit is about the nearest the Tory party will get to one that could get through Parliament. Boris and JRM may not like it but they are a minority wing and have been defeated. Nobody would replace TM with one of them. If they did you would be looking at a Labour government within months - and that would lead to a softer brexit still. The bremoaners know that so will not push things to a vote.
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Davis and Johnson walked away because they knew fine well that Mays compromise would be rejected by the Brextremists and that the alternative of no deal is an unthinkable car crash, they didn’t want to be associated with either option for purely selfish reasons.
 
Tobes said:
Davis and Johnson walked away because they knew fine well that Mays compromise would be rejected by the Brextremists and that the alternative of no deal is an unthinkable car crash, they didn’t want to be associated with either option for purely selfish reasons.
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Is there any brexit deal or no deal that you can imagine would be acceptable to the majority of the UK public and to the EU? I cannot. The referendum opened Pandora's Box which can never be closed.
 
Leo said:
Is there any brexit deal or no deal that you can imagine would be acceptable to the majority of the UK public and to the EU? I cannot. The referendum opened Pandora's Box which can never be closed.
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Davis’s entire job was to try and come up with one, in over 2 years in the role he failed to do so.

The simple reality has always been that what they would want is undeliverable i.e. all of the benefits of the single market and customs union, without being part of either or adhering to the EUs 4 pillars, and the alternative of no deal is completely undesirable for a whole myriad of reasons.
 
superhorns said:
May's career is in the hands of Boris Johnson, David Davis and Steve Baker if they stand up in parliament next week and fully explain the stitch up.
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Davis maybe. Nobody gives a monkey's toss a fish's tit or a serpent's arse what Boris has to say anymore. And long may that continue.
 
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Tobes said:
Davis and Johnson walked away because they knew fine well that Mays compromise would be rejected by the Brextremists and that the alternative of no deal is an unthinkable car crash, they didn’t want to be associated with either option for purely selfish reasons.
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No, they walked away because of the secret plan instigated by the remainers in the cabinet and the even firmer remainers, the civil servant mandarins. May's fully compromised offer will be rubbished by the EU to her complete embarrassment. The only way to negotiate is announce a 'no deal' on anything like these terms. Leave on WTO terms, face the short term hassle then move on.
 
superhorns said:
No, they walked away because of the secret plan instigated by the remainers in the cabinet and the even firmer remainers, the civil servant mandarins. May's fully compromised offer will be rubbished by the EU to her complete embarrassment. The only way to negotiate is announce a 'no deal' on anything like these terms. Leave on WTO terms, face the short term hassle then move on.
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"short term hassle" - and you call yourself a businessman <doh>
 
superhorns said:
No, they walked away because of the secret plan instigated by the remainers in the cabinet and the even firmer remainers, the civil servant mandarins. May's fully compromised offer will be rubbished by the EU to her complete embarrassment. The only way to negotiate is announce a 'no deal' on anything like these terms. Leave on WTO terms, face the short term hassle then move on.
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Boris is a duplicitous liar.

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‘Short term hassle’ you just don’t get it do you? Any of it?
 
superhorns said:
No, they walked away because of the secret plan instigated by the remainers in the cabinet and the even firmer remainers, the civil servant mandarins. May's fully compromised offer will be rubbished by the EU to her complete embarrassment. The only way to negotiate is announce a 'no deal' on anything like these terms. Leave on WTO terms, face the short term hassle then move on.
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Oh dear - secret plans by remainers, secret plans by hard brexiters (civil servants are servants, they do not make policy). And we thought the Tory party were united.
Of course the EU will reject TM's plans - because what we want and what the EU want are incompatible.
Announcing a "no deal" is not called negotiating by the way.
 
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Leo said:
Oh dear - secret plans by remainers, secret plans by hard brexiters (civil servants are servants, they do not make policy). And we thought the Tory party were united.
Of course the EU will reject TM's plans - because what we want and what the EU want are incompatible.
Announcing a "no deal" is not called negotiating by the way.
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Calling for a 'no deal' until the EU seriously wanted to negotiate is the best way. This would give them time to contemplate a large financial black hole in their income plus increased hassle for their exporters. The civil servants were working on instructions from Hammond and a couple of cohorts. Clearly the civil service is part of the establishment that would like Brexit to be reversed.
 
superhorns said:
Calling for a 'no deal' until the EU seriously wanted to negotiate is the best way. This would give them time to contemplate a large financial black hole in their income plus increased hassle for their exporters. The civil servants were working on instructions from Hammond and a couple of cohorts. Clearly the civil service is part of the establishment that would like Brexit to be reversed.
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Do you have even the vaguest clue as to what would be affected if we simply walked away on the 29th March?

Everything from Euroatom to Open Skies.....they’ve drawn up plans to stockpile processed food and bring back generators from Afghanistan to float them in the Irish Sea to avoid a NI blackout ffs. You absolutely epitomise the gung ho dismissive ‘no deal’ advocates, in so much as you haven’t got a Scooby just how entwined we are with the EU after over 40 years of regulatory integration.
 
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superhorns said:
I would rather listen to a successful businessman like Dyson than a civil servant.
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You don't need to listen to a civil servant - there are plenty of successful businessmen who think its a terrible idea. But you just dismiss them as doom mongers. Hey ho.
 
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